[3.5] Hidden Casting

[Scipio]

My Ravenloft group should avoid this discussion.

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My gestalt Strahd is a full necromancer on one side and an assortment of classes on the other. His goal is to remain hidden while casting.

Relevant Feats and Class Abilities
Hide in Plain Sight (Shadowdancer)
Skill Mastery (Exemplar)
Mobile Spellcasting
Still Spell
Silent Spell

It is my understanding if you cast a spell while hidden, you take a -20 on the Hide check. If you take a move action after the casting, you only have the hide penalty associated with how far you have moved. Strahd can move as part of the casting, and then take another move action afterwards.

Question #1
How do Mobile Spellcasting and Hide work together?

For example, he has an enhanced speed of 60, and he casts then moves 55 feet (greater than half and less than full), so he has a -5 penalty due to movement. If he cast at the beginning, does the -20 penalty apply during the movement portion of the standard action?

Here is how I believe it works, so please correct me as needed. Any time you move, it necessitates an opposed hide/spot. Any time you attack, it also necessitates an opposed hide/spot. If you move, cast and then move again (mobile spellcasting), you treat the moving and casting as separate checks. So mobile spellcasting allows you to ignore the -20 penalty, since you are moving after the casting. The only penalty comes from how fast you are moving.

Question #2
How does a lack of spell components interact with the Hide skill?

For example, if you are casting a Silent Still spell (no material/focus) and the spell does not require an attack roll, do you take the -20 hide penalty? It seems like there would be no penalty, since there is nothing to be seen or heard.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Siosilvar]

It is my understanding if you cast a spell while hidden, you take a -20 on the Hide check. If you take a move action after the casting, you only have the hide penalty associated with how far you have moved.

Looking at the Hide skill, that's a reasonable assumption, but I believe the -20 would (or should) apply to any Hide checks you make in a round after you attack or cast a spell.

Question #2
How does a lack of spell components interact with the Hide skill?

For example, if you are casting a Silent Still spell (no material/focus) and the spell does not require an attack roll, do you take the -20 hide penalty? It seems like there would be no penalty, since there is nothing to be seen or heard.

The -20 hide penalty either technically still applies because you cast a spell or technically doesn't because you didn't make an attack. It'd be a reasonable houserule to state that there's no hide penalty because of the lack of components.

[JasonP]

Don't forget the Conceal Spellcasting skill trick from Complete Scoundrel p.85, I think that may help here.
It doesn't specifically talk about being hidden, but it should apply and if it doesn't you could just work out a version that requires hide instead of sleight of hand that would do so.

[Scipio]

Looking at the Hide skill, that's a reasonable assumption, but I believe the -20 would (or should) apply to any Hide checks you make in a round after you attack or cast a spell.

Yeah, I am not sure mobile spellcasting affects the hide check during the move/cast standard action. It seems to me that if you use your actual move action after casting, then you should not get the -20 penalty. I need to read up (again) on the expanded hide rules in CAdv and the Rules Compendium.

The -20 hide penalty either technically still applies because you cast a spell or technically doesn't because you didn't make an attack. It'd be a reasonable houserule to state that there's no hide penalty because of the lack of components.

I agree. If you are not making an attack roll, and the spell has no components the -20 penalty should not be triggered.

The nice part is that even if Strahd takes the -20 penalty, he can take 10 on his hide check for a 28. That is before invisibility comes into play.

[Curmudgeon]

Looking at the Hide skill, that's a reasonable assumption, but I believe the -20 would (or should) apply to any Hide checks you make in a round after you attack or cast a spell.

That's plainly inconsistent with the rules. Hide normally takes no action itself, so the penalty is purely for the action on which you piggy-back your Hide check. There's no "in the same round" penalty anywhere in the rules for the skill.

Mobile Spellcasting combines spellcasting and moving, and there's no Hide penalty for moving -- only for the speed at which you move. These aren't separate actions under the rules; it's all one. You don't "cast then move" or "move then cast": you do them together, and that's why you provoke AoOs everywhere along your movement path.

As far as casting and using Hide together without Mobile Spellcasting: you can't. It's just not one of the actions on which you can piggy-back a Hide check. So there's no situation where a -20 penalty would apply with Mobile Spellcasting; the check is always piggy-backed on your movement.

[AstralFire]

Spoiler your entire post except the warning to prevent accidental reading from eyes skimming too fast.

[Scipio]

Mobile Spellcasting combines spellcasting and moving, and there's no Hide penalty for moving -- only for the speed at which you move. These aren't separate actions under the rules; it's all one. You don't "cast then move" or "move then cast": you do them together, and that's why you provoke AoOs everywhere along your movement path.

So are you saying there is no -20 penalty for casting, when used in conjunction with Mobile Spellcasting? That would be great for my plans, but I am not sure why this would be the case.

IRT AstralFire
Thanks for the tip!

[Curmudgeon]

So are you saying there is no -20 penalty for casting, when used in conjunction with Mobile Spellcasting? That would be great for my plans, but I am not sure why this would be the case.

You're moving in the standard action when you cast with Mobile Spellcasting.

Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action.

Casting a spell isn't normally one of the situations where you're allowed to use the Hde skill at all. Mobile Spellcasting lets you add movement to your spellcasting, and moving is one of the situations where you're allowed to Hide. But Mobile Spellcasting only allows you to move your speed, not to run or charge; thus the maximum penalty you could incur would be -5 if you move more than ½ your speed.