Making an interesting Psychic Warrior.

[Chronos Flame]

Hey. My gaming group is starting a new game and we are all starting at level five. I expect this game, like our last, to go into the late levels. I have decided to finally play a psychic warrior I have been thinking about for a while. I wanted to know if anyone had any tip for me as this is my first psywar I've actually gotten to play.

My goal isn't really to powerbuild him exactly, as the choices I've made so far are far from optimizing. I would like help in making him do what he does well. So far I have this...

Human level 5 psywar. I am taking the illithid heritage feats (and on that I won't budge). I have all 4 tentacles and that is about as far as I plan on progressing in the tree other than getting extraction. What are good powers, feats, and items for the future? Right now I am considering lion's charge, claws of the beast, and bite of the wolf. I plan on doing a charging/grappling type build. Also, I don't plan on multiclassing in anything that will stunt my psionics.

[Keld Denar]

You have a pretty decent plan. Don't forget about Expansion, as size increases make all of your natural weapons scale up. The King of Smack is an excellent example of this.

The only multiclassing, of any, that I'd ever suggest for a PsyWar is possibly a 2 level dip in Monk with the Monastic Training (ECS) and Tashalatora (Sec of Sarlona) feats. This negates your need for Claws of the Beast because you'll have an Unarmed Strike that scales well with your level while you take all of those tasty PsyWar levels. This fact also boosts your ability to grapple because your grapple damage is based on your UAS damage, not your natural weapon damage. Granted, you are mostly grappling to do brain extraction, but its still nice to have decent base grapple damage as well.

The other option would be to drift into Slayer. Costs you 1 ML and the Track feat, but bumps your BAB up to full and gives you some decent abilities. Its not THAT much more amazing than PsyWar, but probably worth it.

[Chronos Flame]

Well to begin with, I am not entirely sure if ebberon stuff is available to us, if for no other reason I am not sure if anyone has the books. I just looked up the two feats online and I like them but I am going to have to plan for now on not being able to take them.

I did consider the slayer class but I don't really find the abilities it gives worth the loss of the bonus feats psywar gives. Maybe the high BAB is worth it... I'm not sure.

If I can't do the feats from ebberon the claws will work as they scale pretty well. I'm thinking about using grapple sometimes as a combat method, extraction aside, mostly when charging isn't an option. So any ways to get grapple bonuses is a good thing. I don't know why I didn't think of expansion. What about things like Vigor or offensive precognition? or are those just not worth it in the long run given how few PP a psywar gets?

[The Rabbler]

Vigor is one of the best methods of keeping you alive there is, because it's so efficient (linked power is your friend). Precog. Offensive is okay; not all that great, but nice to have around if you find yourself missing a lot. From that level 1 list, the really good ones are Vigor and Expansion.


What are you looking for in a character? aside from chargers, psychic warriors also make very effective trippers (just to throw it out there).

[Amphetryon]

War Mind for 5 levels might be worth considering, just for Sweeping Strike. As written, it allows you to grapple extra creatures. This makes you a more efficient Tank in one respect, while still progressing PP.

I'm assuming you got IUS and Improved Grapple?

[Optimystik]

Sanctified Mind (LoM) is another way to get some full BAB (and therefore, that 4th attack) into your build with minimal loss of ML.

The fluff on Illithid Heritage and being a Slayer or Sanctified Mind doesn't quite match up though... but then, Illithid Heritage fluff is a joke anyways.

[Person_Man]

Best powers around that level are Hustle, Expansion, Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire or Vampiric Blade, Stomp, Vigor, and Hostile Empathic Transfer. There are other good ones if you want to mine the splat books, but you should be fine without them. Use your feats to pick up a good melee combo or two (and remember that size effects most opposed checks) and you're set.

War Mind for 5 levels might be worth considering, just for Sweeping Strike.

War Mind has it's own power list which doesn't stack with Psy War. So it's actually pretty horrible until ECL 10 when Sweeping Strike kicks in, and he's starting at ECL 5.

[Amphetryon]

War Mind has it's own power list which doesn't stack with Psy War. So it's actually pretty horrible until ECL 10 when Sweeping Strike kicks in, and he's starting at ECL 5.

That said, he continues to gain power points, which are modular in nature and therefore fuel whichever powers he chooses. The nature of power points and psionics in general also makes it so it's often more efficient to augment lower powers than it is to use higher ones.

YMMV.

[Person_Man]

That said, he continues to gain power points, which are modular in nature and therefore fuel whichever powers he chooses. The nature of power points and psionics in general also makes it so it's often more efficient to augment lower powers than it is to use higher ones.

YMMV.

I believe that may be incorrect.

Your manifester level runs on a separate track for each class or prestige class you have (that doesn't progress a base class ability). So a Psychic Warrior 5/Warmind 3 can only manifest powers as a 5th level Psychic Warrior, or as a 3rd level Warmind (which just happens to draw powers from the Psychic Warrior class list). Manifester level limits the maximum amount that you can augment a power.

Similarly, bonus power points from having a high ability score can be gained only for the character’s highest psionic class. Since bonus power points are based on your primary ability score and your manifester level, you end up with fewer power points by multiclassing or entering a prestige class. For example, a Psychic Warrior 10 with Wis 20 gets 27 + 25 power points. A Psychic Warrior 5/Warmind 5 with Wis 20 gets 7 + 20 + 12 power points.

The Practiced Manifester feat can add up to +4 to your manifester level for one class (up to a maximum of your HD), mitigating this problem somewhat. But it only works for one side, and has no effect on your number of powers known.

Don't get me wrong - I love me some Warmind. It's just not useful at low ECL.

[AmberVael]

Similarly, bonus power points from having a high ability score can be gained only for the character’s highest psionic class.

Wait, where on earth did you get this? I've never heard of it and don't see it anywhere in the relevant section on the SRD.


Edit: Oh, it's in the warmind text. That's bizarre.

[Lycanthromancer]

Wait, where on earth did you get this? I've never heard of it and don't see it anywhere in the relevant section on the SRD.

The only place it's referenced is in the war mind entry, which disallows stacking of manifesting score bonuses to pp, though nowhere else (and specific overrides general).

So one more reason not to take war mind if you're already a manifester.

[edit] PsyWar'd by the quoted poster herself. I must be slow.

[AmberVael]

Actually, just as an aside, it seems to say that in the text of each PrC that grants a new manifesting ability. Psionic Fist has the same text, as an example.

Apparently, starting your power progression over isn't enough- you get less power points as well.

Oh silly WotC...

[Person_Man]

Actually, just as an aside, it seems to say that in the text of each PrC that grants a new manifesting ability. Psionic Fist has the same text, as an example.

Apparently, starting your power progression over isn't enough- you get less power points as well.

Oh silly WotC...

Although it's regrettable that it makes certain builds bad at certain ECL, it's actually a necessary rule. If it didn't exist and manifester levels and bonus power points from multiple classes did stack, a Psychic Warrior 1/Psion 1/Wilder 1/Lurk 1/Psychic Rogue 1/Warmind X would get bonus power points from 6 sources.

[Draz74]

Although it's regrettable that it makes certain builds bad at certain ECL, it's actually a necessary rule. If it didn't exist and manifester levels and bonus power points from multiple classes did stack, a Psychic Warrior 1/Psion 1/Wilder 1/Lurk 1/Psychic Rogue 1/Warmind X would get bonus power points from 6 sources.

... and yet, still have fewer power points than an Ardent 5/Warmind X, due to the quasi-exponential nature of PP progression.

[Pluto]

Although it's regrettable that it makes certain builds bad at certain ECL, it's actually a necessary rule. If it didn't exist and manifester levels and bonus power points from multiple classes did stack, a Psychic Warrior 1/Psion 1/Wilder 1/Lurk 1/Psychic Rogue 1/Warmind X would get bonus power points from 6 sources.

Is that a bad thing? Even with outrageous ability scores (18's down the line), you'd be looking at 14 pp at level 6. A Psychic Warrior with a 16 Wisdom would have 20. (And I've never felt I had PP to spare as a PW. Ever.)

@OP: The Grip of Iron power (EPH) and the Link Power feat (CPsi) sound like they'd be up your alley.

[Chronos Flame]

I did consider tripping as an option but I ultimately decided against it. That could be bacuse I've never played a tripper before and am underestimating it though.

And yes I have improved grapple in a way, When using the tentacles gained from the illithid feats I'm treated as having improved grab. I will take grip of iron power but I think I have as many powers as I can take at my current level, so I will take it next level when I actually get illithid extraction.

I'm not so sure about warmind. The loss of higher level powers and the ability to manifest is a lot. BaB doesn't matter a whole lot as far as additional attacks go because I will always only get 4 tentacle attacks, 2 claws, and a bite.

[KillianHawkeye]

BaB doesn't matter a whole lot as far as additional attacks go because I will always only get 4 tentacle attacks, 2 claws, and a bite.

Wouldn't you rather get 4 attacks with a sword (or whatever), 4 tentacles, 1 claw, and a bite?

[Chronos Flame]

I suppose so. The difference is this. I can take multiattack if natural weapons are my primary. If not I take a -5 on each attack. I dunno, maybe I will go with warmind, but honestly I plan to make good use of my powers. If I went warmind I would miss out on a number of powers and PP.

[Samb]

Here's a crazy idea, why not take as many illithid feats as possible and go for a illithid savant?

I would say to try illithid blast to stun your targets so you don't have to worry about BAB at all. Most things that are immune to mind affecting effects are not edible anyway. Will need a decent Chr and clarification of how to boost your blast.

Illithid don't bother with attack since they eat stunned opponents.

Warmind is a great PrC if you were not a psionic class to begin with. For a psionic race and a non-psionic class it is great. Getting 5th powers at level 15 is about the same rate as a psywar. Swordsage5/warmind10 is very good thanks to both being WIS based. Warmind is a bit of a deviation from illithid extraction though.

[Chronos Flame]

For the life of me I can't figure out how illithid blast is supposed to work. How many PP does it take? Can it be augmented?

[Pluto]

For the life of me I can't figure out how illithid blast is supposed to work. How many PP does it take? Can it be augmented?

...CPsi is an awful book.

Since there's no errata and because the feat is nonsense, I'm going to take a guess and say that the "expend power points" phrase is an editing relic that you can safely disregard.

A 1/day ability with strict prerequisites that requires you to blow your focus shouldn't need a PP cost attached; especially if it doesn't outline the function of that cost.

[Chronos Flame]

I feel like too many of the illithid feats are a waste. The 4 grapples and the extraction I like, but I don't really know if I can burn the feats for the other ones that really I'd be better off taking other psionic feats... I might take illithid blast depending on what my DM says about it.

[Endarire]

Hood has my standard advice, though you can tweak your build to be more PsyWar.

[AslanCross]

The Soulbound Weapon alternate class feature is pretty awesome, IMO, since you can call your signature weapon all the time. Need to get out of jail? Summon your weapon and use dissolving weapon on the bars.

Also it gives soulknife a run for its money.

[Optimystik]

The Mantled Warrior ACF (same link) is just as good - with all the bonus feats Psywars get, you can amass a fair number of decent mantles and abilities - most notably Natural World, which gets Metamorphosis 3 levels early.

Guardian, Time and/or Deception make you a great tank.

[Chronos Flame]

The problem with soulbound weapon is I plan on focusing heavily on natural weapons. If I could chose one as my soulbound that'd be nice but I can't. Because I am focusing in such a way there is a good amount of feats I need so there is also that lost feat (which isn't too bad). I may have to reconsider though, it's a very nice ability. I may ask if I can take that and have it work instead to enhance one of my natural attacks.

[Draz74]

Also it gives soulknife a run for its money.

What money?

[The Cat Goddess]

The Mantled Warrior ACF (same link) is just as good - with all the bonus feats Psywars get, you can amass a fair number of decent mantles and abilities - most notably Natural World, which gets Metamorphosis 3 levels early.

Guardian, Time and/or Deception make you a great tank.

By strict reading of those ACFs, you can't take both at the same time. Also, nothing says you can trade bonus feats for further Mantles.

[Draz74]

... except the Tap Mantle and Don Mantle feats in CPsi.

[AslanCross]

What money?

The money it gets from the Kalashtar racial support it gets in Races of Eberron, which is pretty much the only reason to play Soulknife.