[3.5] Dealing with weird Dm-created monster.

[fortesama]

To be fair, our DM did warn us in advance that he'll be sending this kind of monster at us, though the exact specs are limited. Since it's not covered anywhere, i'll just show what abilities it apparently has based on some questioning. I'm just looking for some tips to deal with these things since I always run some kind of spellcaster (a cleric, or maybe a battle sorcerer this time) and i don't think i'll be able to use a lot of tricks to get around it easily. Alchemical items such as tanglefoot bags and the like are rare. The ability names i made up for the purpose of this post and the description for the abilities i am trying very hard to explain as clearly as possible. Forgive me since english is not my native language:

Persistent Greater Arcane Sight (Su): As the spell except this is always active.

Spell Absorption (Su?): Can negate activated spells, spell-like ability and supernatural abilities within range as a free action (Almost like counterspelling, except it can hit anything magical). Can instantly dispel all magical effects on a target as a standard (still unsure actually) action. (Still unsure of the range. And yes, they can do this to an AMF.) Magical equipment continue to function. Whenever this ability is used, this creature's size increases by one category to a maximum of gargantuan and gains a (still unspecified) bonus to (still unknown, most likely something to do with strength, ac, saves and attack bonuses).

Spell Immunity (Ex): Has an unbeatable spell resistance.

Energy Immunity (Ex): Has complete immunity to the following energy types: Fire, Cold, Electricity, Sonic, Acid.

And no, we are not going at epic level. Apparently, we will be starting at level 1.

Edit: The campaign has finally started and I've confirmed the following things:

Perform is consolidated to one skill, all the knowledge skills are consolidated into the skill Lore

all crafting feats are consolidated into the Craft Wondrous Item feat (w00t)

gold is the only currency

all casters get the Eschew Materials feat for free with no penalties, since he doesn't want anyone to deal with the headache of tracking spell components.

There are around 8 of us consisting of:

• a DMM Persist Cleric with Planning and Time domains for the persistent haste (Me),
• A winged feral lizardfolk fighter that somehow managed to drop his racial HD and get his LA down to +1 (don't ask how, though i suspect a couple of beers may have been involved)
• a ranger
• a pair of modified assassins from the assassin's handbook-thingy one let me borrow which is apparently 3.0 material
• a vampire who intends to be a rogue
• an archer-type fighter
• and a bard who intends to go into dirgesinger

There's no guarantee we'll be complete each time so most likely there will be around 3 or four of us at most at any given time since everyone, including me, attend college.

Those antimagic thingies are what he calls "Spell Fiends" and live primarily in forests which there happens to be plenty of. They can't hit spells that originate from within an AMF though he didn't mind that details since he thought spells can never originate in one anyway (which is what Extraordinary spell aim would be for, though that leaves issues on how to use emergency cure spells).

They can't dispel ongoing effects anymore.

The start tiny, grow by one size category for each magical whatever they counter up to a maximum of large with accompanying bonuses and explode and summon a hostile outsider with (party level +10) HD if it absorbs any more magic, so using polymorph/shapechange/stuff it in a lead-lined cauldron with a tiny hole/make it a pet is out of the question.

If I'm in the party at the time, there's a 100% chance that some will be present and hiding when we enter a forest (which is what DMM is for).

player killers always come with them

looks like i've got my work cut out for me. any good party buffs to cast at the start to prevent any heartache once we do enter forests?


Whew, long post.

[PId6]

That seems... overkill. And broken. See if you can get it as a form for Polymorph/Shapechange.

Best you can do is stick to Conjuration (Creation) spells, which create completely non-magical things that it should have no business absorbing. Wall of Stone, Orb of Force, Solid Fog, these will be your best bet against that creature.

[fortesama]

Ermmm you forgot one thing:

Can negate activated spells, spell-like ability and supernatural abilities within range as a free action (Almost like counterspelling, except it can hit anything magical)

I thought of the Conjuration (creation) spells earlier but it'll nip the spell right at the bud. Anything else or maybe i'll just let arrows fly (or squash it's brains if i'm a cleric). And i just got another piece of data.

It's initial size is tiny.

[Myth]

If it's a walking monster with no flight/teleportation ability do this:

1. Open a Gate to the Negative Energy Plane above it's head.
2. Reverse Gravity.
3. Win.

If it does have some extra means of movement just hit it with maximized empowered twinned chained etc. etc. Orb spells (from SC) that don't check for SR. It can't dispell them unless it can use it as an immediate action as well as a free one.

[Chrono22]

Rage, grapple, pin, chew, swallow.

[PId6]

Ermmm you forgot one thing:

Can negate activated spells, spell-like ability and supernatural abilities within range as a free action (Almost like counterspelling, except it can hit anything magical)

I thought of the Conjuration (creation) spells earlier but it'll nip the spell right at the bud. Anything else or maybe i'll just let arrows fly (or squash it's brains if i'm a cleric). And i just got another piece of data.

It's initial size is tiny.

Block LoS somehow, or just catch it flat-footed. But seriously, that's basically a selective AMF that catches anything within LoS. Broken broken broken broken broken.

Edit: This is assuming the free action ability can be taken out of turn order, like speaking.

[Leon]

capture it in a lead lined box

[ZeroNumerous]

If it does have some extra means of movement just hit it with maximized empowered twinned chained etc. etc. Orb spells (from SC) that don't check for SR. It can't dispell them unless it can use it as an immediate action as well as a free one.

Energy Immunity (Ex): Has complete immunity to the following energy types: Fire, Cold, Electricity, Sonic, Acid.

Unfortunately that doesn't work (Orb of Force checks for SR, IIRC).

As for my suggestion: What about just killing it with a crossbow/melee weapon? At level 1, most things that are appropriately CR'd won't have the HP to take more than a couple of hits.

[unre9istered]

Can negate activated spells, spell-like ability and supernatural abilities within range as a free action (Almost like counterspelling, except it can hit anything magical).

Given this, your only choice appears to be hit it to death with weapons. Honestly, your DM appears to be kind of a jerk. My reasoning: he's effectively turned all spell-casters in to fighters with out HP or BAB or good weapons. Especially at 1st level. If he throws these at the party regularly, multi-class into a martial class and use your cleric spells out of combat to heal. Given that it can dispel ongoing effects, even buffing is no good.

Edit: Thought I read that you were a Cleric. My mistake.

[PId6]

Unfortunately that doesn't work (Orb of Force checks for SR, IIRC).

Nope, it's like the other Orbs: no SR, no save, no magic.

[fortesama]

I guess free action was a bad choice of words. Short version: i use anything supernatural/magical, the thing sort of counterspells it, for lack of better term, instantly. I guess it can't do squat against a grapple though considering it's initial size.

So... in case i do end up running into one of those things, which caster would be better for grappling it and snapping it's pencil-thin neck?

Just a thought, i might settle on a Venerable White Dragonspawn Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold Battle Sorcerer with a bow so i won't be completely useless in a dead magic zone or a somehow widened AMF.

[PId6]

Just a thought, i might settle on a Venerable White Dragonspawn Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold Battle Sorcerer with a bow so i won't be completely useless in a dead magic zone or a somehow widened AMF.

No. Just no. Battle Sorcerer is never worth it. Never ever. You're much better off just multiclassing to Paladin for 2 levels. Battle Sorcerer screws you over your entire career for a few benefits at low levels. NOT worth it.

Try this:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

With your extra sorcerer levels, you'll more than make up for the loss of CL from Paladin. You'll be a very good gish with great defenses and you won't be completely screwed in AMF or against these things.

Oh, and get Shapechange as soon as you can and start changing into those darn things, then give your DM a taste of his own broken medicine.

[unre9istered]

So... in case i do end up running into one of those things, which caster would be better for grappling it and snapping it's pencil-thin neck?

Druid, let your animal companion do the neck snapping until 5th level, then hope that it can't dispel Su abilities and wild shape.

Go war trained riding dog and trip lock it. Everyone else hit it while it's prone (+4 to attack makes a huge difference at 1st level)

[Grumman]

If you want my opinion, everybody should play an infiltrator-type, and use Nystul's Magic Aura to hide your magical equipment. This means Unseen Seers as arcanists, Dread Fangs of Lolth as fighters, Ruby Knight Vindicators as clerics, and so on.

[fortesama]

No. Just no. Battle Sorcerer is never worth it. Never ever. You're much better off just multiclassing to Paladin for 2 levels. Battle Sorcerer screws you over your entire career for a few benefits at low levels. NOT worth it.

Try this:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

With your extra sorcerer levels, you'll more than make up for the loss of CL from Paladin. You'll be a very good gish with great defenses and you won't be completely screwed in AMF or against these things.

Oh, and get Shapechange as soon as you can and start changing into those darn things, then give your DM a taste of his own broken medicine.

I'll keep that in mind and I shall ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT once i get shapechange and sick this thing at some overpowered dragon or something with insane magical stuff... assuming it doesn't have one of those darned things guarding it. Apparently his green dragons like to keep these as servants.

[subject42]

Are you in a party that consists entirely of casters or something? I had a DM do something similar once when he got sick of single spells breaking his entire plot in half.

[fortesama]

actually, it appears that i'll be the only spellcaster (again) in this group. the campaign hasn't started yet after all, though he gave out a lot of spoilers regarding the environment. From what i've been hearing from everyone else, they'll be going in as a fighter of some sort.

and i think he added that monster because of the scribe scroll incident with my warlock in a previous campaign with another DM. okay, so wishing away a major threat via greater planar binding scroll + efreet might have been a bit much but that was just once. our current dm was a PC in our last DM's campaign and it looks like their swapping places (maybe it's due to the fact that he lost control of one of the players while i was away and i'm usually responsible for keeping the others in check and being a rules lawyer for both the DM and the group).

[Gerrtt]

Isn't it sad that one spell is enough to make some DMs resort to these anti-magic schemes rather than start using better magic tactics themselves?

My first thought from reading the OP was that just raw damage from weapons was going to be the way to go, especially since it's spell cancellation do-hickey doesn't knock out your magic gear.

Do you have any idea about what level you might expect to go up against them?

[fortesama]

sorry for double posting but, any armor suggestions? i think i'm going with the build posted above.

[PId6]

sorry for double posting but, any armor suggestions? i think i'm going with the build posted above.

Greater Luminous Armor, from BoED. It's significantly better than any actual armor you can have. Sorcerers can get it via taking Arcane Preparation.

[Mawhrin Skel]

I'm just looking for some tips to deal with these things since I always run some kind of spellcaster (a cleric, or maybe a battle sorcerer this time)

How about a psion?

Spell Absorption (Su?): Can negate activated spells, spell-like ability and supernatural abilities within range as a free action (Almost like counterspelling, except it can hit anything magical).

Spell Immunity (Ex): Has an unbeatable spell resistance.

Sounds like an arcane ysalamiri.

[Myth]

Oh it's scaled per level? I thought it was a CR 20 or something monster. In that case do this

Bear Totem variant for Barbarian / Reaping Mauler / Frenzied Berzerker. Be something Large. Snaps some necks.

Or alternatively be something that can take levels in Warshaper. Get Bear Barb + Warshaper + Bearwarrior. A big bad brown bear that rips heads off is the result.

[true_shinken]

Just punch the thing in the face. That's obviously what your DM wants you to do, don't try to go against the flow.

[fortesama]

I might get bashed for bringing up an old topic but:

Well, kobolds are a no go so that killed those sorcerer gish dreams. In any case, I managed to uh.. "convince" the DM to tone down the monster a bit to a more manageable level: at least it can't dispel ongoing effects anymore and it sounds like an AMF shuts it's antimagic down, though he didn't specify for sure if it did. He also made the ability so that it can't control what magical stuff it counterspells and explodes and summons a big scary frequently hostile outsider if it would try to grow larger than large so that kills my dreams of trivializing an encounter against some BBEG wizard through polymorphing. Still unsure if it's going to tone down it's immunities (like it matters).

I'm going for a human DMM persist clericzilla instead, with (overpriced to an unspecified amount) nightsticks, unlimited stacking allowed (with focus on party buffs so the others won't get jealous).

No deities in his campaign to speak of so any domain combination that's appropriate for the alignment and theme will do (i'm going for a judge flavor). OTOH, no deity-specific PrCs/feats/whatever either (so long RKV). I'm going for the Planning domain and I'm considering whether I should go for the Divine Magician ACF. Looks like there will be another cleric with us too.

As for feats, i''ve considered these, and flaws and LA buyout are a no, though he introduced an NWN2-style background trait system, and we have a 34-point buy. All knowledge feats are consolidated into a skill called Lore and looks like he'll do the same to Perform:

Str 14
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 12

1: Extra Turning, Persistent Spell, (Planning Domain Bonus) Extend Spell
3: DMM: Persistent Spell
6: Leadership
9: Reach Spell or Craft Rod (just to make those most probably overpriced nightsticks cheaper)
12: Power Attack
15: Knowledge Devotion (deep understanding of the case at hand is the best way to ensure that the innocent remain free and the guilty will suffer, so I reason)
18: Law Devotion (duh)/ Strength Devotion (as the guilty may resist, more... aggressive forms of arrest may be needed, though that's already stretching it)

[Drogorn]

You're going to build a DMM Persist cleric when you already know that you've annoyed your DM with your shenanigans?

[Another_Poet]

Sounds like a job for the fighters, just wait outside and tell them to run out to visit you if they need healing. If it's Tiny consider bringing a heavy iron cauldron to just toss over the thing and capture it. Weld a lid with a porthole on it and open the porthole when you need to antimagic something.

Sounds like the world's best magic item, your DM will rue the day he stat'd this poor thing.

[Jeff240sx]

No. Just no. Battle Sorcerer is never worth it. Never ever. You're much better off just multiclassing to Paladin for 2 levels. Battle Sorcerer screws you over your entire career for a few benefits at low levels. NOT worth it.

There is one exception.

If, and BIG if, your DM allows a "Venerable White Dragonspawn Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold Battle Sorcerer"

You can team it up with Swiftblade to keep 9th level spells.
Regular Sorcerer would need to do:
Sorc 6 / Swiftblade 10 / AbChamp 4, for a Sorcerer casting of 20. 17BAB. Your first 3 feats are taken. Dragonwrought(1), Draconic Reservior(3), Martial Weapon Proficiency(6).

Battle Sorcerer would go:
B. Sorc 4 / Swiftblade 10 / AbChamp 5 / XXX 1 (Dragonslayer)
For sorcerer casting of 20, BAB of 19. Saving a feat and getting 13 more HP, all in the beginning levels where they matter.

Playtested, after 3x CR4 encounters for a level 3 party, the Wizard was tapped out mid-way through encounter #2, but the battle-sorc gish had 3 spells remaining.

It's painful to lose a spell known and per day at each level. But to boost survivability, save a proficiency feat -- or worse -- a lost caster level from martial dip, and to gain Armored Casting, it's really a decent trade.

10 + 2 DEX + 4 chainshirt + 5 NA (alter-self to Lizardfolk) + 4 Shield SLA leads to 25AC at level 1, with your d8 hp.

[jiriku]

For a tiny creature, you could do quite well stuffing it in a sack with a brick, then tying off the sack and throwing it in a river.

If you're playing a DMM cleric (not sure that's a good idea in a T4 party with a DM who dislikes powergaming), just hit it with an axe. By level 5, you should be pretty good at that.

If its ability to dispel buffs is a standard action, I'd just buff the crud out of everyone. It can have fun blowing all of its standard actions on dispel checks while the party fighters slice it to ribbons. Remember that against solo monsters, if the monster spends its turn completely nullifying your spells, this is a net win for the party because the monster is merely neutralizing you and the rest of the party is acting without restriction.

Alternately use summon monster to summon allies. They can beat on it without resorting to spells, and again, a turn spent activating dispel magic is a turn spent not doing anything about the mob of fighters trying to kill it.

[Another_Poet]

If its ability to dispel buffs is a standard action

It's a free action.

[Kylarra]

There is one exception.

If, and BIG if, your DM allows a "Venerable White Dragonspawn Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold Battle Sorcerer"

To be fair, if your DM is allowing that you might as well just push for pun-pun, so the BS (pun intended) is irrelevant in the face of cheese.