Deadlands?

[Lycan 01]

So I'm curious about this Weird West game known as Deadlands. I've done some research into it, and I like what I've heard so far. Paranormal Western setting with Betting Chip and Poker Deck mechanics? Sounds awesome!

But I've heard there are a few different systems for it, and I'm kinda curious about how the dice system and stuff works...

From what I've gathered, the current edition is an add-on for the Savage Worlds system. Two books for one system? Okay, I guess, since SW is pretty cheap and a handy book to have, anyway. But is that the current edition of it, or is there a "regular" Deadlands available too?

How good is Deadlands: Reloaded compared to "normal" Deadlands?

And how do the dice work? I read its similar to Shadowrun, but with only once dice counting, or something like that. So is there a dice pool based off your skill and attributes, or does the dice size vary with your skill/attribute level?


And does anyone have any awesome stories to tell, or just a personal opinion they'd like to share?

[Aeromyre]

Sounds interesting,

[Lycan 01]

Indeed it does. Hence why I'm considering buying it.

[arguskos]

I've not played it (rare the system I haven't tried once), but I've heard good things about Deadlands: Reloaded. I'm interested to hear more opinions.

[Aeromyre]

I feel I must make up for my previous suggestion,
I don't know if it's in the rules, but it's a cool varient of how to roll dice from mutants and masterminds using cards instead of dice.

CARD-BASED RESOLUTION
Another possible resolution mechanic is to give players cards
instead of dice. Each player decides when to use any given card in
his hand, giving them more control over the success and failure of
their heroes. Players can time dramatic speeches to coincide with
success and skew their characters’ results to match their character
concept. For example, a player who wants his hero to be hard to hurt
or capture can save high cards for saving throws and Escape Artist
checks, spending lower cards on other rolls and checks.
Obviously, the GM must get a deck of cards with an even distribution
of numbers from 1 to 20. This can be done with a standard
deck of playing cards. Remove all jokers and face cards. Treat an
ace as a “1.” All red cards are worth the value shown; all black
cards are worth the value shown +10. Some games designed
around card mechanics have their own numbered decks that also
work well, as long as there are enough cards for good, random
distribution.
A 52-card deck culled of face cards produces 40 cards, which is
about right for three players and a GM. If more players are present,
two decks may need to be shuffled together. All players are dealt a
five-card hand. Whenever a d20 roll is called for, the player decides
which card from his hand to use instead. Thus, a player having his
character make an attack roll adds the value of one card played to
the character’s attack bonus to determine the result.
Once a player has spent all the cards in his hand, he’s dealt a new
hand. This forces players to use all the cards in their hands, so characters
don’t escape bad results (though players have some control
over when they do well and when they do poorly).
Situations where a player is allowed to re-roll a die roll—such as
spending a hero point—allow the player to discard his hand and
draw a new one.
If players are allowed to spend cards whenever they want, this
system can be abused. Players simply expend hands with lots of low
cards on unimportant things and hoard hands with high cards for
combat and saving throws. There are three ways to handle these
issues. The first is to ignore them: warn players you don’t want to
see abuse and trust them to be mature enough to respect that. The
second is to forbid frivolous card spending: anytime a character can
take 10 on a check, he must, and cards are not played for unimportant
actions (such as target practice). The third option is to gather all
hands between scenes and deal out new ones—this way, there’s no
point in trying to save a good hand for a fight, as a new hand gets
dealt out before each fight anyway.
Whatever system is used, it should apply to you and your players
equally. You may be given a slightly larger hand (up to eight cards),
since you frequently run multiple NPCs in each encounter, and allied
NPCs may draw from a separate deck than adversarial NPCs, but
otherwise the same rules apply. Be careful not to “pick on” a particular
hero, but otherwise play out your cards in whatever way that
seems appropriate.
This system can be used to help set up a higher level of drama:
villains who need to escape are given high card results to do so,
and those designed as cannon fodder are stuck with lower results,
without players feeling the GM decides everything by fiat. Everyone
is generally more effective, which tends to favor PCs since they have
more opportunity to maximize their card results than you. On the
other hand, the system also tends to favor whoever is more powerful,
so be careful if designing an encounter with a foe of a higher power
level than the heroes.

[Lycan 01]

That's actually pretty nifty.

I think its cool, at least, but my players may not feel the same. Our games are slow paced enough as it is, since they're easily distracted. Giving them handfuls of cards to keep track of and remain focused on the game? Bad idea.

[Aeromyre]

That's actually pretty nifty.

I think its cool, at least, but my players may not feel the same. Our games are slow paced enough as it is, since they're easily distracted. Giving them handfuls of cards to keep track of and remain focused on the game? Bad idea.

Psh i know what you mean lol
my players would be like, "OOOHHHH! These cards are shiny!!"

[Lycan 01]

"Alright, so the BBEG is-"

"Two pair!"

"Three of a kind!"

"Do what?"

"Oh sorry, we were playing poker... What were you saying?"

"..."

[Aeromyre]

"Alright, so the BBEG is-"

"Two pair!"

"Three of a kind!"

"Do what?"

"Oh sorry, we were playing poker... What were you saying?"

"..."

rofl yeah haha but in this western setting they may actually focus because ingame they may actually be playing poker

[Lycan 01]

Well, that's the thing. I dunno how the Deadlands dice system even works! XD

I do like the fact that magic involves playing Poker against spirits to cast spells. That sounds like a fun and inventive system!

[Aeromyre]

Well, that's the thing. I dunno how the Deadlands dice system even works! XD

I do like the fact that magic involves playing Poker against spirits to cast spells. That sounds like a fun and inventive system!

Yeah i want to check it out

[GenericFighter]

Here's my opinion: Deadlands is great! Play Deadlands!

The original system was quite a departute from other games in that it mixed a deck of cards for combat initiative and spellcasting, a tricky dice system for using skills and an action points/XP mechanic using poker chips. It works well until you get into larger fights.

The origial dice system had you roll a number of dice equal to your rating in a skill (1-5) of the die type of the related attribute. So with a Deftness of 3D10 and a Shooting skill of 4, you roll 4D10. You take the highest die as your result and try to beat a target number. Additionally, if a die rolls its highest number, you can roll another of the same type and add it to the roll.

My opinion is to go with the Savage Worlds version. SW is a revamped engine based on the Deadlands rules but reeduced to a much more managable complexity. For comparison, SW skills are graded by die type- D4 to D12- with a standard difficulty of 4 for just about everything. PC's get to roll an additional D6- the 'wild die'- for almost all their rolls and can pick whichever die rolled higher. In that way, it has much more cinematic level of PC competence.

Also, the SW Explorer's Edition is $10. A complete, full color 160 page system for $10!

[Aeromyre]

Hey what do you know? i google searched it and found a 6 page pdf

http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/Dead...D20Options.pdf

We know some of you love ‘em, and some
of you hate ‘em, so consider this one optional.
Instead of using the standard d20 method
for resolving initiative, characters are dealt a
playing card from a standard poker deck (with
two Jokers) instead. The Marshal then counts
down from the Ace to the Deuce, with each
player resolving his action when his “Action
Card” comes up.
So what does an initiative modifier do for
you? Half that number (rounded up) is the
number of cards you’re dealt. You then take
the highest of the cards as your Action Card
and discard the rest.

so for at least initiative you use cards

[Saintjebus]

I don't really know anything about the Deadlands setting, but from a mechanics standpoint, SW is one of the most elegent systems I've ever run. I just finished running my first Supers game in it, and it was highly refreshing after years of the complexity of D&D.

[Lycan 01]

Actually, according to Wikipedia, that's basically how initiative is done in the new one...

[Timeras]

I' ve not played Savage Worlds yet, but my group will start one soon and I have already created a character. So far the rules seem pretty cool to me, so a Deadlands based on SW won't be bad either.

But stay away from the original Deadlands. While the idea of playing Poker against a spirit to cast a spell sounds fun it will get annoying soon.
You make a skill check to see if you may even try. If that's successfull, you draw a hand from a poker deck. A verry good result on your check lets you draw additional cards. The better your hand, the better your spell effect. Some spells may require at least three of a kind (or something) to work. If it is an attack spell, your cards determine how many an what kind of dice you roll for damage. Then you roll to see where you hit the target ("Gizzards" lets you roll an extra die, "Noggin" lets you roll two extra dice) You divide the result of your damage roll by the size of the target to determine how many wounds (if any) it takes in the hit part.
And if you draw a Joker, the spirit does something nasty to you even if your spell is a success.

[WalkingTarget]

Other card mechanics besides initiative which has been discussed (in the original rules, dunno SW):

Edit - err... the D20 version (ick) was discussed. The original system was similar. Counting down from ace to deuce was the same (suits matter, see the order from character generation), the Red joker was wild and could be used to interrupt any other action without a Quickness test (necessary for held actions with other cards), the black joker gave the GM a fate chip and was the signal to reshuffle the combat decks. You rolled your quickness skill each round. You got 1 card by default, and for every multiple of 5 you got on your roll (5, 10 , 15, etc) you got another card. You could keep one card as a held action between rounds (game term was "keeping it up your sleeve"), but if the black joker came up you lost it.

Hucksters - the primary "caster" character type. Hoyles book of games is a grimoire with spells encoded in the game rules and these characters have discovered the secret. When a Huckster casts a spell, he's entering into a test of wills against spirits that Hoyle referred to as Jokers and this test is typically envisioned as a hand of poker. You roll your skill for casting and for every "raise" you get (i.e. every 5 points above the target number) you get an extra card (you get 5 by default). The better the poker hand, the more effective the spell. However, if a Joker comes up (or, if in the revised rules, the black Joker specifically) then the spirit pulls a fast one on you and you suffer from backlash (some unexpected, generally negative, effect happens). There are other "flavors" of casters that use the same mechanic, but rather than having a gambler/card player motif they might, say, be a hexslinger and have gun-related mojo.

Mad Scientists - come up with wacky super-science. Generally steampunk-ish. You're encouraged (required?) to actually draw up a blueprint, the crazier and more awesome the better. I believe there's a roll involved too, but might be remembering wrong. Similar to Hucksters, you draw a poker hand and that determines how awesome your crazy contraption is.

Character generation - You start with a 54 card deck, draw a number of cards (I think 12 or 13). These represent your die pools for your base attributes. Card value determines the die type (2's are d4's, Aces are d12's, etc) and the suit determines the number of dice (Clubs = 1, Diamond = 2, Heart = 3, Spade = 4), so if you draw the ace of spades, you can assign 4d12 to a stat (like Deftness). The die type is also used for skills under that attribute (like Shootin'). You draw more cards than you have stats, so you can drop something, but you can't drop deuces. Also, if a joker comes up, that counts as 5 dice, but you draw an extra card to see what type (so if you draw a joker, then a king, you can assign 5d10 to something), but it also indicates something mysterious in your past.

I like the system quite a bit, but large combats can take a long time due to the way the initiative system works. It's a system where the style of the game is reflected in the mechanics, which I think is a good thing overall. The Weird West setting was also an interesting alternate history and the sourcebooks gave enough setting info to be able to play through a variety of situations. This was one of my college gaming group's primary games and we had a lot of fun with it. Besides the archetypes I gave above there were rules for playing Blessed characters smiting their foes with righteousness, Indian shamans making deals with nature spirits, Eastern martial artists, and Undead characters struggling with the demon that's brought them back for control of their own bodies, and more. Not to mention the ability to play just normal people (there's nothing like a requirement to have an arcane background). The post-apocalyptic follow-up was also very cool.

[Lycan 01]

Ooooooooooohhhh... Yeah, I definitely want to try this game out now. :D


Wait, wait, wait... Mad Scientists are encouraged to write up blueprints for their invention? Sooo... If I played a MS, and I drew up a detailed schematic for... oh, say... a shotgun with 3 rotating barrels that uses compressed-steam cartirdges to fire phospherous buckshot, and I rolled high enough or got a good enough Poker hand, I could build that sucker?

[WalkingTarget]

Ooooooooooohhhh... Yeah, I definitely want to try this game out now. :D

One of us, one of us...

Wait, wait, wait... Mad Scientists are encouraged to write up blueprints for their invention? Sooo... If I played a MS, and I drew up a detailed schematic for... oh, say... a shotgun with 3 rotating barrels that uses compressed-steam cartirdges to fire phospherous buckshot, and I rolled high enough or got a good enough Poker hand, I could build that sucker?

Yes, very yes. One of the "standard" mad science gizmos is the Gatling Pistol - a spring loaded automatic handgun. Thinking on it, I think the schematic is the basis of your GM giving you a bonus to your roll, which then determines your hand size for the poker draw. I want to say the quality of your hand (i.e. however many "ranks" above what you needed to build the thing in the first place) improves the machine by reducing the chance of malfunctions.

[Lycan 01]

Must... find... players...

Got any stories or sample scenarios to share?

[WalkingTarget]

Well, we played through the majority of the published scenarios and a good time was had by all.

One of the standard story hooks has to do with the way the metaphysics of the world is set up. The badness that's going on is represented by all areas having a "fear level". The higher the level, the creepier and stranger (and generally more dangerous) the area is, but this level is determined by how scared the people around it are (level 0 being happy sunny places where fluffy bunnies hop and play, the highest level - 5 I think - being a titular Deadland: all foliage is twisted into tormented shapes, the rocks look like skulls, the sky is overcast and gloomy, the wind sounds like an ominous moan, etc.) The big bads of the setting are setting up positive feedback loops: they expend some power creating a monster in an area that then scares the local populace, which makes them more frightened, which gives the evil more power, so they make it even worse, etc. If our intrepid heroes defeat the horror and word spreads the fear level can decrease and things get better. Of course, doing this draws the attention of the Big Bads and some of their more independent minions might start gunning for the good guys (sometimes literally). It's been something like 8 years since my last game, though, so while I remember some particular scenes where we did awesome things, I can't remember a lot of the setup (and what I remember would be hard to explain without getting into a lot of the history of the setting and a lot of spoilers).

There are plenty of examples of monsters in the books, and each sourcebook tends to have at least one scenario (more if it's a setting book instead of, say, one about a particular arcane background like Hucksters).

[Lycan 01]

So if you have a relatively low fear level, the worst they may have to deal with is a sudden string of bad luck in the local town, maybe a spike in rattlesnake activity, a few weird omens, and maybe a mysterious dissappearance or two. Around medium fear level, a gunslinger recently hanged for murder might be seen riding through town, swearing vengance against those who wronged him as lightning splits the skies overhead. And with max fear level, you might have a full zombie outlaw posse on your hands, or perhaps an Indian Shaman hungry for revenge is imbued by dark forces to become a twisted mix of man and nature, perhaps transforming into a Werewolf or some other abomination?

Do those sound like decent guesses at what example scenarios would be?

[Physics_Rook]

A quick guide to the typical Deadlands session.

Everyone's characters meet up and figure out what they want to do. After a little quibbling (all parties quibble a little), they head out to follow up on an adventure hook. Now the horror starts.

On their way, they get ambushed by a monster (in Deadlands, one's enough). Only a few characters will even see the unspeakable horror, and they will be the first to die, frozen to the ground with fear. Their hopeless comrades will all get the heeby jeebies as they look on in horror as their friends are torn apart. Those foolish enough to fight back against the abomination serve only to give the cowardly a chance to run (they also serve themselves on a platter ).

As the screams of the dying fade behind them, the lucky few who evaded the beast this time around are sentenced to a slower death, crawling through a desert both vile and foul. They bandage their wounds as best they can using only what the earth provides, but the smell of their fear, and the blood of their allies will gather the inevitable horrors to hunt after them.

As the weary night plods on towards dawn, the survivors huddle close to each other, hoping that whatever eldritch creature attacked them would fear the light, and thus lose interest.

With the new day's dawning beacon of hope and light over the horizon, the survivors head back to town. At this point you congratulate the PCs who're still alive, see if any of the dead PCs will come back as soul-less creatures of evil, and make arrangements for the next game session.

Players remember, if you fail a perception check, it only means you won't scream in terror before dying.

GMs, if you have any questions, the answer is throwing more tainted hell-spawn at your players.

[Lycan 01]

So its Call of Cthulhu with cowboy hats, then?

[WalkingTarget]

So if you have a relatively low fear level, the worst they may have to deal with is a sudden string of bad luck in the local town, maybe a spike in rattlesnake activity, a few weird omens, and maybe a mysterious dissappearance or two. Around medium fear level, a gunslinger recently hanged for murder might be seen riding through town, swearing vengance against those who wronged him as lightning splits the skies overhead. And with max fear level, you might have a full zombie outlaw posse on your hands, or perhaps an Indian Shaman hungry for revenge is imbued by dark forces to become a twisted mix of man and nature, perhaps transforming into a Werewolf or some other abomination?

Do those sound like decent guesses at what example scenarios would be?

As a general guess at an overview... that sounds like a pretty good start.

However, the Walkin' Dead (i.e. "normal" zombie types) are one of the standard baddies, so that's likely to happen even at lower levels. You're choice of the word "abomination" is good for high-fear level areas, go with that.

One big nasty is a Mojave Rattler. You've seen the movie Tremors? (if not, look it up) Think one of those things, only a lot bigger. Then think of the fact that you might run into a nest of them.

Or there's the Hangin' Judges: a group of corrupt judges who were eventually lynched. Now their shades wander the West, punishing any perceived transgression with an seemingly unstoppable, relentless pursuit, until they see their quarry strung up.

Or there's the Wendigo - large, hulking, giant-fanged embodiments of ravenous hunger. Some say they were once men who succumbed to cannibalism in order to survive and who are now cursed.

Or there's the more human servants of the big bads (knowing or not). Corrupt Shamans or Harrowed villains back from the dead are good ones too. Walkin' Dead are just corpses animated by evil spirits, Harrowed are ones where the person's soul is still there too fighting the spirit for control - they tend to get special powers that normal dead don't get. Plus, if a PC dies (from anything but a headwound) you get to draw a number of cards (based on a stat that goes up as you encounter big nasty things and survive, called Grit). If you draw a Joker, you come back Harrowed.

Edit - oh, and if/when a PC's Grit gets to 5. The Big Bads have noticed the character and they get a visit from a particularly nasty monster sent just for them (which comes in such a manner that the rest of the posse can't really help). You must face the gazebo alone.

[Lycan 01]

Sweetness!

I <3 Tremors...

So if one of the players does something immoral, like killing an outlaw who was repentant and had surrendered or extorting extra cash from an innocent person after doing them a favor, then the Hanging Judges might turn their vindictive eyes upon them? That sounds fun...

Wendigo, you say? Perhaps a quest to rescue some lost settlers from a nearby mountain pass turns into a hideous nightmare when they discover what the last remnants of the settlers had to resort to in order to survive... and what came of that decision.

Hm... In regards to the Harrowed, how does this sound for a plot hook? A retired and guilt-ridden outlaw is gunned down by some young upstart bounty hunters, only to come back as a Harrowed and gun them down before going on a crime spree. Now the old outlaw is struggling to stop himself from committing any more sins, whilst the spirit controlling him is raising all sorts of Hell by robbing banks, burning salloons, robbing coaches, and murdering lawmen. Perhaps he's an old friend of one of the players, or perhaps they've decided to bring him to justice? Or maybe they stumble upon him during a bank robbery, and in a moment of lucidity he begs them for help before the spirit reasserts its dominance and rides off cackling insanely?


Edit: Ooooh. I actually did something like that in my college group's DnD campaign, and they loved it. The Paladin had to fight an evil warlord, and even though they weren't involved the other players surrounded the table and cheered him on for the session-long duel.

Edit2: They also faced a Gazebo. It was a TPK. Of course, it was all an illusion, but they still shudder at the mention of gazebos...

[Physics_Rook]

So its Call of Cthulhu with cowboy hats, then?

It's steampunk Call of Cthulhu with cowboy hats. Except instead of steam you use the souls of orphans (better mileage I guess).

There are mad scientists building abominations unto this world .There are cultists trying to release abominations unto this world. There just are things in the world that are abominations ... unto this world.

Really, the thing that distinguishes it most from CoC is the propensity for amazing from all sides of the table. See in games like D&D, if the dice are hot in a player's hand, then you get some cool rolls. For the Weird West, when you throw down a handful of dice and then start rerolling the crits, you can get some numbers PCs were never meant to see. Have the fun is trying to explain what happened.

I remember trapping a evil soul possessing opera mask beneath my size 10, and fanning the entire contents of my revolver at it. It wasn't till after I'd critted that I realized I would've had to invest in a peg leg afterwords if I'd missed.

In my opinion, the stories alone that can come out of Deadlands make the game worth playing.

[Suzuro]

Hanging Judges: If I remember correctly, they don't just attack those who do something wrong, they make up seemingly random things that are 'illegal.' One day smokin' might be illegal, while the next breathing out while stepping on your left foot is Illegal, and it is always, of course, a hanging offense.


-Suzuro

[Bharg]

I got me a copy here for e few days and the rules seemed really complicated... Probably learning by doing works, though...

[BobVosh]

It is a game that is infinitely more clear after playing a session or two. Lots of fun atmosphere, and spell casting is definitely CoC style: use sparingly. Its kinda weird that if you are too good at it, you may draw a lot more cards than you want. Admittedly you may be a lot more likely to cast the spell correctly, but drawing the joker is much more likely when you end up drawing an extra 3-5 cards.

I love playing a huckster, but I learned quickly a good gun skill and gun will be equally important in survivability.