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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default 3.5 knowledge skills

    Hey I have been toying with something for my new character for some time. He is not a class that has access to all knowledge skills as class skills nor is he a bard. Roleplay-wise he is a scholar though and I want to reflect that. His int is only 14 but the way I really want to reflect it is in know skills. I only have 2 skill points per level that I dont have to spend on other things and only one knowledge is a class skill. Is there any feat or the like that can give me boosts on know or make all know skills class skills or something?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
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    London, England.

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    The "Education" feat will do it. It's in both the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and the Eberron Campaign Setting. Boosts Knowledge and makes all Knowledge skills class skills.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    I'm usually very against taking a feat for something like that but it does seem to fit for this character. Nothing that gives a weak bardic knowledge type thing or anything like that is there?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
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    London, England.

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    There are quite a few PrCs and alternate classes that give Bardic Lore, but it's typically based off class level. Depends which class you're using.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    No multiclassing for it, especially if based off class level wont work. I'm thinking the feat will do well enough I suppose. I'm doing a psywar and the way I'm playing him requires a whooole lot of feats as is, Id rather not multiclass for fluff. The feat is probably worth it though.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
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    London, England.

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    You could just ask the DM if you could trade in one of your feats for Bardic Lore. That way it'd use your class level. It's a reasonable enough request.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shadowleaf's Avatar

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    May 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Cloistered Clerics get Lore, which is exactly the same as Bardic Knowledge.

    They get all Knowledge skills as class skills too.
    English is a second language etc etc.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Ranos's Avatar

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    Feb 2008

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    So what's your class ? Maybe it'll be easier to help you if we know what we're dealing with.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    I dont have a book in front of me right now but bardic knowledge only applies to local important people, artifacts, and places right? What does lore do?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
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    London, England.

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Lore is the same as Bardic Knowledge.

    If you don't have the skillpoints to max out lots of Knowledges, Bardic Knowledge is a good substitute, because it's almost always possible to relate it to what you're trying to figure out somehow.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shadowleaf's Avatar

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    May 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos Flame View Post
    I dont have a book in front of me right now but bardic knowledge only applies to local important people, artifacts, and places right? What does lore do?
    "Lore (Ex)

    Thanks to long hours of study, a cloistered cleric has a wide range of stray knowledge. This ability is identical to the bard's bardic knowledge class feature, using the cloistered cleric's class level in place of the bard level. "

    Bardic Knowledge

    A bard may make a special bardic knowledge check with a bonus equal to his bard level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the bard has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)
    English is a second language etc etc.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    But it doesn't, for example, work for creature identification and the like?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shadowleaf's Avatar

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    May 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Not really. That would be Knowledge: Religion, Nature, The Planes, Arcana or Dungeoneering.

    Depending on what type of monster it is, obviously.
    Last edited by Shadowleaf; 2010-06-12 at 05:27 AM.
    English is a second language etc etc.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
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    London, England.

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Doesn't work for creature identification, but you might be able to remember a story that relates to that creature somehow. It's a "roll and see what the DM tells you" sort of skill.

    It's not as good as having max ranks in the relevant Knowledge, but then you wouldn't expect it to be.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shadowleaf's Avatar

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    May 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    You could use it to remember local legends of the terrible Dragon, which used to terrorize the countryside.


    However, you won't be able to use it to remember a Troll's weakness. Unless you recall a story of how Sir Holierthanthou slayed the evil Troll with a mighty flaming sword.
    English is a second language etc etc.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Yeah, I was planning on taking ~5 ranks in a bunch of knowledges and then afterwards just splitting skillpoints between them as I level. What kind of bonus does the education feat give to knowledge skills?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shadowleaf's Avatar

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    May 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    It makes all Knowledge skills class skills, iirc.
    English is a second language etc etc.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Oh I thought it gave a bonus too

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shadowleaf's Avatar

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    May 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    It does, actually. +1 to 2 Knowledge skills of your choice, and makes Knowledge skills class skills. My bad.
    Last edited by Shadowleaf; 2010-06-12 at 05:34 AM.
    English is a second language etc etc.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Ah okay, pretty small bonus, but I guess worth it for the class skills.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
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    London, England.

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    The Player's Guide to Faerun version gives +2 to 2 Knowledges. But that's the Forgotten Realms for you.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Oh well thats the one I'll use since the game is in the forgotten realms

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shadowleaf's Avatar

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    May 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Huh. I looked at my copy of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting. +1 to 2, not +2.

    Damn confusing to have 3 versions of the Education feat. Anyway, Players Guide to Faerūn has the regional feat Education, which Saph mentioned. It's better than the other two, as it gives +2 to 2 knowledge skills if you have ranks in them.
    Last edited by Shadowleaf; 2010-06-12 at 05:42 AM.
    English is a second language etc etc.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    oh... never mind then lol. Oh well. I suppose there is a small chance that, because it's primarily for fluff, my DM might just allow me to take knowledges as class skills. But that's wishful thinking

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shadowleaf's Avatar

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    May 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos Flame View Post
    oh... never mind then lol. Oh well. I suppose there is a small chance that, because it's primarily for fluff, my DM might just allow me to take knowledges as class skills. But that's wishful thinking
    It's just a feat. Ask him if you can take a flaw to balance it out. It's not exactly a gamebreaking feat, either.
    English is a second language etc etc.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    --Lime--'s Avatar

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    May 2010
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    Far East

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Bardic knowledge checks are my favourite.

    I have a question too, though:
    Say a character has Knowledge(architecture & engineering). They're in a hall searching around. There is a hidden switch, but it could be literally anywhere.

    So they rolled search, but it's not high enough to find the switch on its own.
    However, since the switch is behind a fake panel on a fake pillar, how would you decide the character should roll?

    Personally, I'd say "You find nothing, but notice one of the pillars doesn't look right." after the first search.

    Then they can choose to make an architecture check without DM prompting, to examine the pillar in that way:
    "You do quick calculations, and realise that the pillar does not support any load." i.e. it must have another reason for being there.
    If they fail the check, it would be something like:
    "Perhaps it was placed there to balance the space in the room out. You shrug and decide it's just an innocent pillar after all."

    If they passed, another search check with a +5 bonus since it's concentrated on the pillar. With that, they should probably find the switch.

    That's how I'd do it. However, how would you do it? Would you secretly roll the knowledge check for them, since if you know about construction, you'll know just by looking that something's not right. Or would you prompt them to make the check: "You can roll knowledge if you like, because that pillar seems odd"? Or do what I did, and make them have to remember to roll?

    Just interested, really.
    It is what it is unless it is what it isn't. Or isn't what it is. But if it isn't what it isn't then it is what it is.

    Dungeon! game currently being run. If this tickles your fancy, and you'd like to be notified when the next round of signups opens, come and say hi in the OOC Thread!

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    I'm not entirely sure how he feels about flaws. I will ask.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shadowleaf's Avatar

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    May 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Personally I'd roll the knowledge check for them. The other way around is just too big a hint out of character - once you know the pillar seems a bit funny, you will not let it go.

    In real life, you'd probably either dismiss the thought or just look a bit closer, then forget about it. PC's have a way of overdoing things - breaking down the pillar because it looks slightly out of place.


    Edit: Also OP - you might want to take a look at the Knowledge Devotion feat in Complete Champion.
    Last edited by Shadowleaf; 2010-06-12 at 05:47 AM.
    English is a second language etc etc.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

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    Aug 2005
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    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Quote Originally Posted by --Lime-- View Post
    Bardic knowledge checks are my favourite.

    I have a question too, though:
    Say a character has Knowledge(architecture & engineering). They're in a hall searching around. There is a hidden switch, but it could be literally anywhere.

    So they rolled search, but it's not high enough to find the switch on its own.
    However, since the switch is behind a fake panel on a fake pillar, how would you decide the character should roll?

    Personally, I'd say "You find nothing, but notice one of the pillars doesn't look right." after the first search.

    Then they can choose to make an architecture check without DM prompting, to examine the pillar in that way:
    "You do quick calculations, and realise that the pillar does not support any load." i.e. it must have another reason for being there.
    If they fail the check, it would be something like:
    "Perhaps it was placed there to balance the space in the room out. You shrug and decide it's just an innocent pillar after all."

    If they passed, another search check with a +5 bonus since it's concentrated on the pillar. With that, they should probably find the switch.

    That's how I'd do it. However, how would you do it? Would you secretly roll the knowledge check for them, since if you know about construction, you'll know just by looking that something's not right. Or would you prompt them to make the check: "You can roll knowledge if you like, because that pillar seems odd"? Or do what I did, and make them have to remember to roll?

    Just interested, really.
    I think you should simply give the search check a +2 synergy bonus. If they fail the check you can tell them one of the pillars seems to be purely ornamental because it isn't supporting any weight.

    Of course, also describe other non-plot critical objects in the room because only mentioning the pillar is the same as telling them THE PILLAR IS SPECIAL!

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2009

    Default Re: 3.5 knowledge skills

    Oh I didnt even think of knowledge devotion. If he will let me take a flaw to balance out educated I will definately take knowledge devotion.

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