How much is an epic feat worth? [3.5]

[Fortuna]

I'm building a character for a level 21 game, and taking an epic destiny (which replaces my first four natural epic feats). But I like epic feats. Now, I'm playing a psion, and as it turns out I can adjust my build ever so slightly to gain one epic feat. There are two ways I could do this. I could dip something, losing a manifester level but pushing my third psion bonus feat (I'm taking meditant all the way through) up to level 21, thereby letting it be an epic psionic, metapsionic or psionic item creation feat.

The other option is that I could blow three feats on entry to Elocator, leaving me very feat-starved but keeping manifester level 20 and getting that epic psionic bonus feat. Is either of these options worth it?

[AmberVael]

Dip into a non psionic advancing class for one level, take Practiced Manifester, then take your last psion level.

Oh look, full manifesting and ML level, and you traded one feat for one epic feat.

(Plus, this means you could use your epic levels on a few non-ML advancing levels to get whatever features you want, but not suffer for it. Practiced ____ at epic levels is really, really useful).

[PId6]

I'm pretty sure non-epic bonus feats can't get you epic feats without Chaos Shuffle.

Either way, Chaos Shuffle your non-epic feats to epic ones and problem solved.

[Fortuna]

I'm pretty sure non-epic bonus feats can't get you epic feats without Chaos Shuffle.

Either way, Chaos Shuffle your non-epic feats to epic ones and problem solved.

It only says that I have to meet the prerequisites for the feat, which include 21st level. I see no reason why it shouldn't work. Also, I point blank refuse as a matter of principle to use the Chaos Shuffle.

Vael: that still leaves me behind on PP, which is what I'm worried about.

[AmberVael]

Vael: that still leaves me behind on PP, which is what I'm worried about.

Your base power points don't advance after level 20, and your ability modifier bonus is based off of manifester level.

My method leaves you with the same PP that someone who took full psion would get.

Edit: Ah wait, meditant loses you a level, doesn't it? Well that would do it.

[Rothen]

What single epic feat do you plan on taking? Whether the lost ML/PP are worth it depends on that, if you ask me.

[Fortuna]

I was considering taking Power Knowledge to increase my flexibility/options.

Vael: Are you sure about that? I'm fairly certain that beyond psion 20 your power points don't advance, but this would be my eleventh psion level that I'm discussing, which means that I would go from 311 to 343 base power points (a significant boost, IMHO).

[PId6]

I was considering taking Power Knowledge to increase my flexibility/options.

Vael: Are you sure about that? I'm fairly certain that beyond psion 20 your power points don't advance, but this would be my eleventh psion level that I'm discussing, which means that I would go from 311 to 343 base power points (a significant boost, IMHO).

Well, in the long term, you'll get back those power points and be no further behind on a pure psion. It takes only a single additional level to get it all back.

[AmberVael]

As noted in my edit, I missed that you had lost a level to Meditant.

Anyway, looking for more options...

If you have access to Complete Psionic, and don't mind having a chaotic alignment, you could go for Anarchic Initiate instead. Just pick up Overchannel (which is a good feat to have anyway) and you should qualify (with some skill points spent too).

Anarchic Initiate is a good option for most any psionic character, really. A little extra HP, extra skill points, class features... all for the cost of a feat that isn't a bad idea anyway.

[Fortuna]

No CPsi, sadly.

[DragoonWraith]

No CPsi, sadly.

There is absolutely nothing sad about that.

[Fortuna]

There is absolutely nothing sad about that.

I'll take your word for it.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I'll take your word for it.

You do miss out on a few gems, but the vast majority of it is entirely skippable for one reason or another.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm building a character for a level 21 game, and taking an epic destiny (which replaces my first four natural epic feats). But I like epic feats. Now, I'm playing a psion, and as it turns out I can adjust my build ever so slightly to gain one epic feat. There are two ways I could do this. I could dip something, losing a manifester level but pushing my third psion bonus feat (I'm taking meditant all the way through) up to level 21, thereby letting it be an epic psionic, metapsionic or psionic item creation feat.

The other option is that I could blow three feats on entry to Elocator, leaving me very feat-starved but keeping manifester level 20 and getting that epic psionic bonus feat. Is either of these options worth it?

Let's see...
1) Bonus power points are based on manifester level + primary ability mod, and advance after 20th.
2) Base power points do not advance past 20th.
3) Practiced Spellcaster increased your manifester level to normal (with up to a 4-level dip).

So yes, if you're starting at 21st, by all means: Be a Monk-1//Psion-20, with Practiced Manifester and Carmendine Monk (Champions of Valor), and you get:
Int to AC (thanks to Carmendine Monk), a 21st level bonus Psionic feat (hello Epic Manifester!), full manifester level, full power points. You do lose out on two 9th level powers known, though.