[3.5] Duskblade BBEG

[Flail_master]

Hey playgrounders, me again

yet another question for my campaign, this ones a little shorter...

basically, i was thinking of Duskblade as the class for my BBEG, he's human, nothin exotic race wise... however im thinking that this class may lack power and im lookin for reasons to keep it as his class or other classes he could change to, references to source books would be very helpful if you do suggest one


and BTW, in terms of soloing the party, lets just say theres a big kinda party vs party bit with BBEG in opposing one, then some major 'summon some awesome forbidden powers' ensues (not exactly like that obviously) so he becomes powerful enough to solo them so just a nice class will be appreciated

thanks again guys

[PId6]

First of all, listing the party would help a lot in considering how to build him. Level would be nice too.

Also, have you read the Duskblade Handbook?

[Critical]

Duskblade's are burst-damage dealers, meaning, they can dish out a lot of damage in a short amount of time, perhaps, even one-shotting someone, so I doubt this is what you want to do. Perhaps, a Sorcerer/Abjurant Champion/Spellsword would be a better idea? Or, if you're dead set on Duskblade, make him a spiked-chain tripping type instead, still a challenge, but not enough focused on burst damaging.

[PId6]

Duskblade's are burst-damage dealers, meaning, they can dish out a lot of damage in a short amount of time, perhaps, even one-shotting someone, so I doubt this is what you want to do.

And if you give him Arcane Strike, he can theoretically OHKO the entire party in a single turn (assuming they're all in reach). Fun.

[Critical]

And if you give him Arcane Strike, he can theoretically OHKO the entire party in a single turn (assuming they're all in reach). Fun.

My point exactly.

[Flail_master]

First of all, listing the party would help a lot in considering how to build him. Level would be nice too.

Also, have you read the Duskblade Handbook?

indeed i am currently looking at it giving it a read through to determine effectiveness

ah and ok, we havent actually started yet and im just tryin to plan ahead but i have got almost everyones classes and races so far, and their higher level plans, here goes:
- Derro rogue, he's still looking for a prestige that he likes
- Kobold bard, he later plans to prestige to swashbuckler
- Draconic human Cleric of Tiamat, he later plans to prestige to dracolyte
- Fighter, that is all im aware of so far, she said she wanted to be super evil and be a fighter... sorry :P
- Human sorcerer, he's not informed of any future plans yet however


for this BBEG he wont be fighting them much except for at higher levels though he does appear beforehand, so yeah

[Flail_master]

and lol, maybe not

could you give me references for where i can find those classes please?

[PId6]

and lol, maybe not

could you give me references for where i can find those classes please?

Spellsword is in Complete Warrior. You only want to take a single level here. Abjurant Champion is in Complete Mage.

The best way to build him would be something like this:

Paladin of Tyranny 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight +X

Homebrew an evil version of Greater Luminous Armor from BoED, and give him various defensive spells like Shield, Resist Energy, etc. With Divine Grace and Abjurant Champion, he should be basically invulnerable to most attacks, and he won't be one-shotting anyone like a Duskblade might.

[Critical]

and lol, maybe not

could you give me references for where i can find those classes please?

Sure, Abjurant Champion's from Complete Mage and Spellsword is from Complete Warrior, though, Spellsword is good only for a 1-level dip. Grab spells like Wraithstrike and various others that influence his form/weapon attacks. Yay, we have another viable sword and magic user! If going with this, also, consider the Battle Sorcerer variant from Unearthed Arcana.

EDIT: Swordsage'd. Kinda.

[PId6]

If going with this, also, consider the Battle Sorcerer variant from Unearthed Arcana.

Blech, no never! Terrible terrible terrible! Worst sorcerer trap ever!

[Critical]

Blech, no never! Terrible terrible terrible! Worst sorcerer trap ever!

Yeah, but, it's not a PC, it's a BBEG. He'll die anyway.

[Flail_master]

lol thanks guys, but may i say, i know this is fussy, but id like to refrain from dipping into like 6 different classes, i will do 3 at most, i would prefer 1 or 2

though if worst comes to worst i will keep that combination(s) you said in mind

[PId6]

lol thanks guys, but may i say, i know this is fussy, but id like to refrain from dipping into like 6 different classes, i will do 3 at most, i would prefer 1 or 2

though if worst comes to worst i will keep that combination(s) you said in mind

Then just Wizard X if you want to keep it simple. Cast Polymorph if you feel like going into melee, but you're better off just casting control spells from afar and sending minions after them.

[Flail_master]

Then just Wizard X if you want to keep it simple. Cast Polymorph if you feel like going into melee, but you're better off just casting control spells from afar and sending minions after them.

hmmmm true, i already have a wizard as his right hand man but... hmm i may make him a polymorphing focused wizard?

i would like him to be able to enter combat efficiently

[PId6]

hmmmm true, i already have a wizard as his right hand man but... hmm i may make him a polymorphing focused wizard?

i would like him to be able to enter combat efficiently

There's the Master Transmogrifist class in CArc, but it's pretty bad. Polymorph is more than good enough without needing much help, but you can make him a race like Tiefling so he can Polymorph into Outsiders.

[Flail_master]

There's the Master Transmogrifist class in CArc, but it's pretty bad. Polymorph is more than good enough without needing much help, but you can make him a race like Tiefling so he can Polymorph into Outsiders.

ah true true, could instead just look into more exotic races, i would like human buuuut, maybe ill have to sacrifice that for the sake of being generally a better villain/BBEG

i shall give tiefling a look
any other suggestions for races i could look into?

[For Valor]

A level 20 Duskblade with a level 17 Wizard is what I'm thinking, assuming this guy is at the max levels...

that makes me laugh, see, because the Wizard could kick the Duskblade's butt.

On-topic: You should go for a full Duskblade 20 and make the guy pretty good, but not fantastic. After all, your party consists (tier-wise) of: 1 (Cleric), 2 (Sorc), 3 (Bard), 4 (Rogue), 5 (Fighter).

Your median tier is 3, which is exactly what the Duskblade is. If you optimize his ridiculously with Chain-Trip and all that, you'll make him a lot stronger than your party (I'm assuming your party isn't full of people who are optimizing with Handbooks and all, since your bard is going Swashbuckler and your Cleric wants to be a Dracolyte). Just get a Duskblade with focused in "BOOM I make things explode!" He'll be suited for a BBEG, should be simple to run as a DM, and the players will find him easy enough to take down, assuming they actually try at it.

[Flail_master]

A level 20 Duskblade with a level 17 Wizard is what I'm thinking, assuming this guy is at the max levels...

that makes me laugh, see, because the Wizard could kick the Duskblade's butt.

On-topic: You should go for a full Duskblade 20 and make the guy pretty good, but not fantastic. After all, your party consists (tier-wise) of: 1 (Cleric), 2 (Sorc), 3 (Bard), 4 (Rogue), 5 (Fighter).

Your median tier is 3, which is exactly what the Duskblade is. If you optimize his ridiculously with Chain-Trip and all that, you'll make him a lot stronger than your party (I'm assuming your party isn't full of people who are optimizing with Handbooks and all, since your bard is going Swashbuckler and your Cleric wants to be a Dracolyte). Just get a Duskblade with focused in "BOOM I make things explode!" He'll be suited for a BBEG, should be simple to run as a DM, and the players will find him easy enough to take down, assuming they actually try at it.

hmm thanks, some more points towards Duskblade i see then

hmm alright, now im intrigued, i will have to look to see which i will prefer and which will make moree sense...

however now that i think of it, i may still look for a more exotic race for him... any suggestions?

OH also, didnt say ealier, i meant to, his right hand man wizard is a Golem maker, specifically, stone and iron, i got him almost completely worked out, he's human btw just if ya wanna know...

[VirOath]

If I had to suggest something... Cheat. The worst humanoid opponents are ones not made by the same rules as the party for creation.

So, if he must be a Duskblade, make him a Gesalt. Duskblade X//Factotum X, no more stats to rely on and expands the spellcasting quite a bit without making him a full wizard. Will still have the Duskblade feel, but have quite a bit of flexibility as well. Duskblade adds raw power, Factotum adds the twist to make him more cunning, planning and unpredictable.

This makes a BBEG that the party won't want to face head on, and will push for a more thoughtful approach, hopefully. Otherwise, a fun TPK on the first round of combat as he has superb action economy...

Edit: This also makes a BBEG that they will likely have to face several times and will continue to be a thorn in their side, as he can be a slippery prick.

[Critical]

any other suggestions for races i could look into?

Aasimar villains are cool, rare and have a lot of plot-hook possibilities. Not to mention the great outsider type.

[Flail_master]

If I had to suggest something... Cheat. The worst humanoid opponents are ones not made by the same rules as the party for creation.

So, if he must be a Duskblade, make him a Gesalt. Duskblade X//Factotum X, no more stats to rely on and expands the spellcasting quite a bit without making him a full wizard. Will still have the Duskblade feel, but have quite a bit of flexibility as well. Duskblade adds raw power, Factotum adds the twist to make him more cunning, planning and unpredictable.

This makes a BBEG that the party won't want to face head on, and will push for a more thoughtful approach, hopefully. Otherwise, a fun TPK on the first round of combat as he has superb action economy...

Edit: This also makes a BBEG that they will likely have to face several times and will continue to be a thorn in their side, as he can be a slippery prick.

AH lovely brilliant, thank you very much, thats seems almost perfect!

where can i find factotum?

[VirOath]

AH lovely brilliant, thank you very much, thats seems almost perfect!

where can i find factotum?

Dungeonscape.

[Flail_master]

Aasimar villains are cool, rare and have a lot of plot-hook possibilities. Not to mention the great outsider type.

thank you, again, where can i find it? im not rehearsed in my sourcebook content knowledge

[VirOath]

thank you, again, where can i find it? im not rehearsed in my sourcebook content knowledge

Aasimar is in the MM1

Lesser Aasimar has no LA but can be affected by both Outsider and Humanoid Spells and is in one of the FR books, Races Of I believe.

[Flail_master]

Dungeonscape.

thank you



and thanks for the aasimar reference too

[AslanCross]

It's not so much that the Duskblade lacks power, but that it lacks options. All he'll ever do is deal lots of damage. He has barely anything that will allow him to defend himself or make the fight interesting. I suggest giving him a partner who will buff him and otherwise make the fight interesting.

(Besides, single humanoid opponents, unless they're from the big 3 classes, will simply get overwhelmed by action economy even if they're 5 levels above the recommended CR.)

[J.Gellert]

And if you give him Arcane Strike, he can theoretically OHKO the entire party in a single turn (assuming they're all in reach). Fun.

Huh. I didn't know they were that good. Did WotC actually create a decent damage-dealing gish class by accident, or is that with a standard ubercharger build plus Arcane Strike?

[Flail_master]

It's not so much that the Duskblade lacks power, but that it lacks options. All he'll ever do is deal lots of damage. He has barely anything that will allow him to defend himself or make the fight interesting. I suggest giving him a partner who will buff him and otherwise make the fight interesting.

(Besides, single humanoid opponents, unless they're from the big 3 classes, will simply get overwhelmed by action economy even if they're 5 levels above the recommended CR.)

lol how many time shave i said thank you now but, thanks this is all very helpful guys, specially this, i shall take this into account and make his right hand man have buffing spells as well as the ones required for golem making

[PId6]

Huh. I didn't know they were that good. Did WotC actually create a decent damage-dealing gish class by accident, or is that with a standard ubercharger build plus Arcane Strike?

It's just Arcane Strike supernova being awesome when you're only expecting to fight a single fight that day. It's significantly less powerful for PCs.

[J.Gellert]

It's just Arcane Strike supernova being awesome when you're only expecting to fight a single fight that day. It's significantly less powerful for PCs.

Ah, benefits of BBEGs. I see.