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  1. - Top - End - #811
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    I was poking around and accidentally came across the stats for Star-Spawns of Cthulu. I thought at first they'd be a good fit, but now I'm not sure if they would actually fit any better than, say, a Pit-Fiend. They're pretty strong but probably not earthquake causing-ly so and they're probably too big to fit in a box. Their CR is a smidge lower than I expected, though I guess some of their ability gaps could be made up by the MitD having the right collection of "extra" spells per their description.

    While they're technically outsiders, they've been on the Prime Material Plane for thousands of years at a minimum, so maybe they've slowly gone native and gone in for things like eating, sleeping, and acting as parents.

    Anyway, here it is. In case anyone is curious, I got it from http://www.enworld.org/forum/other-r...n-cthulhu.html.

    **********************************************

    I wasn't able to find a copy over there, but after playing with the Wayback Machine I was able to grab archived stats from the WotC site:

    Star-Spawn of Cthulhu
    Huge Aquatic Outsider (Greater Servitor Race)
    Hit Dice: 20d10+100 (210 hp)
    Initiative: +4 (Improved Initiative)
    Speed: 40 ft., swim 40 ft.
    Armor Class: 22 (-2 size, +14 natural)
    Attacks: 4 tentacle rakes +27 melee, 2 claws +22 melee
    Damage: Tentacle rake 2d6+9 (improved critical), claw 2d4+4
    Face/Reach: 10 ft. by 10 ft./15 ft.
    Special Attacks: Damage reduction 20/+2, fast healing 5, improved grab, rotting constriction
    Special Qualities: Spells
    Saves: Fort +17, Ref +14, Will +16
    Abilities: Str 28, Dex 10, Con 20, Int 21, Wis 19, Cha 10
    Skills: Concentration +19, Cthulhu Mythos +15, Listen +15, Search +14, Speak Other Language (any twenty) +15, Spot +15
    Feats: Blind-Fight, Expertise, Improved Critical (tentacle), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes
    Climate/Terrain: Any aquatic
    Advancement: 21-32 HD (Huge); 33-60 HD (Gargantuan)
    CR: 14
    Sanity Loss: 1d6/1d20


    They all lay in stone houses in their great city of R'lyeh, preserved by the spells of mighty Cthulhu for a glorious resurrection when the stars and the earth might once more be ready. . . .

    -- H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

    A star-spawn is a 20-foot-tall anthropoid creature whose head is a mass of feelers and tentacles, above which two eyes as old and cold as an ice age glare at its foes. Its body is rubbery, yet scaled, and its hands and feet end in tremendous claws. Narrow wings hang like a shroud over a star-spawn's shoulders. Wings aren't used for flight, but are deployed for swimming, much as a manta swims.

    Star-spawn are lesser, younger examples of the same race from which great Cthulhu himself sprang, though even the youngest is older than humanity. Many were trapped in R'lyeh when it sank, sealed up with their high priest Cthulhu, but some avoided imprisonment. Some still live in deep trenches beneath the ocean and other drowned locales (including a few human city sewers). Others dwell among the stars, such as the entities infesting the Lake of Hali near Aldebaran.

    Star-spawn might be encountered by deep-sea explorers intent on raising (or at least searching) a sunken ship or submarine. Sometimes enclaves of deep ones are found near the lairs of star-spawn -- deep ones may even worship lone star-spawn.

    Star-spawn are steeped in lore, and can speak the languages of most creatures who once walked the earth in the past, as well as many of the present Earth languages spoken by humans.

    Combat

    Star-spawn meet most challenges they face with tentacles and claws.

    Improved Grab (Ex): If a star-spawn hits an opponent smaller than it with a tentacle, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without allowing its opponent a free attack. The star spawn uses its tentacle to hold the opponent. Assuming the victim doesn't break free on its action, the star-spawn deals 2d8+9 points of damage or use rotting constriction (see below) each round.

    Rotting Constriction (Ex): Once a star-spawn has held an opponent with improved grab, it can drain a living victim of 2d4 points of Strength per round.

    Spells: All star-spawn know 1d10 spells chosen from the Magic chapter. Star-spawn never lose Sanity when casting spells (since they don't have a Sanity score).
    Last edited by Crusher; 2010-09-22 at 11:53 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #812
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Hmm, in #659, one of the fiends is eating popcorn, so I guess outsiders at least CAN eat.
    "Its a setting less visitor-friendly than the Red Wedding." - 111balz

  3. - Top - End - #813
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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    In the comic where you see the MitD talking to lantern archons, one panel shows him from behind, where he is looking at the archons off panel. His shape seems to indicate a humanoid monster.
    Proud Dorf of the Durkon Fanclub
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  4. - Top - End - #814
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Urist McDwarf View Post
    In the comic where you see the MitD talking to lantern archons, one panel shows him from behind, where he is looking at the archons off panel. His shape seems to indicate a humanoid monster.
    [citation needed]

  5. - Top - End - #815
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Urist McDwarf View Post
    In the comic where you see the MitD talking to lantern archons, one panel shows him from behind, where he is looking at the archons off panel. His shape seems to indicate a humanoid monster.
    I don't think I quite see what you mean in that comic, if this is the one you are referencing. #194

  6. - Top - End - #816
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongos View Post
    I don't think I quite see what you mean in that comic, if this is the one you are referencing. #194
    Hmmm....well, considering this, he's either bipedal or quadrupedal and built really funny.

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Maybe the MitD is a Dalek?! His shadow is kind of shaped like one.
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    ...eh, sorry, this graphic spilled over from another thread....but since this is the thread I usually post this sort of thing...anyways I hope it's not too "off topic".
    Last edited by Bongos; 2010-09-22 at 07:29 PM.

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    Daemon

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by monomer View Post
    So, you're saying the MitD is a Tarrasque with an Infinity Gauntlet?
    No. If I was going to suggest that the MitD is a Tarrasque with an Infinity Gauntlet I would have written exactly that

    I am merely adding an option to our host of possible explanations for the MitD's power. It just so happens that the cliché of omnipotent antagonists endowed with this particular power fits the MitD's personality rather well.

  9. - Top - End - #819
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    Beholder

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    The power Lord Bingo is suggesting seems to be equivalent to wish/miracle/reality revision, but from a different system. I think the only (somewhat) interesting thing it adds is that it could be possessed without MiTD knowledge, which a prepared Vancian spell could not.

    Does Lord Bingo have any particular superhero/villain in mind? That's not got IP issues?
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Mawhrin Skel View Post
    Does Lord Bingo have any particular superhero/villain in mind? That's not got IP issues?
    I am not into superhero comics myself and I do not have a particular superhero/-villain in mind. I do, however, notice the Batman and Robin spoof in SoD when RC "steals" the MitD, so perhaps some unwilling villain from the DC universe..? I try not to read too much into that particular superhero comic reference but it might be a clue to the MitD's origin.
    I realize that while my suggestion of this superpower is able to explain every ability we have ever seen the MitD demonstrate as well as account for his odd personality it does little to actually narrow down the field of creatures he might be. On the other hand the power to warp reality would also mean that the MitD would be able to warp his own shape and thus he has at least the same potential to explain the Circus Scene as, say, the Protean.

    Upon re-reading SoD I noticed that RC tells the MitD that he was impressed with what he saw on stage which puzzles me as the MitD's attendant says he does nothing but stand there -even though the MitD says it is hard to stand on the stage being looked at.
    I am not sure what to make of this but it has got me thinking if the MitD might display characteristics along the lines of the Boggarts in J. K. Rowlings Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix which take the shape of the worst fear of whoever looks upon it. The only D&D monster I can readily think of with such an ability would be the Dream Larva, and I do not subscribe to that idea.
    Last edited by Lord Bingo; 2010-09-23 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Explain Boggarts for those unfamiliar with them

  11. - Top - End - #821
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bingo View Post
    Upon re-reading SoD I noticed that RC tells the MitD that he was impressed with what he saw on stage which puzzles me as the MitD's attendant says he does nothing but stand there -even though the MitD says it is hard to stand on the stage being looked at.
    As in
    "I am impressed by what I see of you"

  12. - Top - End - #822
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    As in
    "I am impressed by what I see of you"
    Just to clarify.

    As in: "I must say, I was impressed by what I saw on stage." SoD, Page 88, panel 3.

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    I like the idea of MiTD being a comic book character. Comic villains and heroes often knock each other through walls and discover powers as they mature. But can you explain the Batman and Robin spoof, Lord Bingo, for those of us that don't have SoD?
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  14. - Top - End - #824
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by lost_my_NHL View Post
    I like the idea of MiTD being a comic book character. Comic villains and heroes often knock each other through walls and discover powers as they mature. But can you explain the Batman and Robin spoof, Lord Bingo, for those of us that don't have SoD?
    During the scene where Redcloak and his nephew (I forget his name) steal MitD from the circus, they are chased by several of the performers who try to steal him back. During this chase scene, Redcloak kills a pair of trapeze artists who are revealed to be Robin's parents.

  15. - Top - End - #825
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    During the scene where Redcloak and his nephew (I forget his name) steal MitD from the circus, they are chased by several of the performers who try to steal him back. During this chase scene, Redcloak kills a pair of trapeze artists who are revealed to be Robin's parents.
    -in the next panel Batman and Robin stand by the corpses. Robin says: "Mom? Dad?", to which Batman replies: "Oooo, though break, old chum."
    If you are familiar with the original stories of Batman and Robin or the (rather poor) movie Batman and Robin you will recognize the incident.

  16. - Top - End - #826
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Urist McDwarf View Post
    In the comic where you see the MitD talking to lantern archons, one panel shows him from behind, where he is looking at the archons off panel. His shape seems to indicate a humanoid monster.
    Actually, you do make a good point. His eyes are shown close to the front of the darkness in the previous frames; in that frame, the darkness ends almost right behind his eyes. This suggests an upright form -- that is, a humanoid type, with little horizontal length but vertical height instead. You can't see him, but the darkness sure ends close behind his eyes.

  17. - Top - End - #827
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordpriest View Post
    Actually, you do make a good point. His eyes are shown close to the front of the darkness in the previous frames; in that frame, the darkness ends almost right behind his eyes. This suggests an upright form -- that is, a humanoid type, with little horizontal length but vertical height instead. You can't see him, but the darkness sure ends close behind his eyes.
    Good point, although we should note that a shapeshifter (such as the Protean) could also be in such a form.

  18. - Top - End - #828
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordpriest View Post
    Actually, you do make a good point. His eyes are shown close to the front of the darkness in the previous frames; in that frame, the darkness ends almost right behind his eyes. This suggests an upright form -- that is, a humanoid type, with little horizontal length but vertical height instead. You can't see him, but the darkness sure ends close behind his eyes.
    Or Rich just put a gradient over the eyeballs without worrying about too much about how dark each part of the gradient was. The edge of the "darkness gradient" is far from his eyes in each panel.

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Skorj View Post
    Or Rich just put a gradient over the eyeballs without worrying about too much about how dark each part of the gradient was. The edge of the "darkness gradient" is far from his eyes in each panel.
    That is quite possible, too, but it does seem at least slightly worth adding to the list of "evidence" as a minor bit of data. Nothing as solid as "he has yellow eyes," but still one more factor to consider, mayhaps.

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Skorj View Post
    Or Rich just put a gradient over the eyeballs without worrying about too much about how dark each part of the gradient was. The edge of the "darkness gradient" is far from his eyes in each panel.
    It's hard for me to believe that Rich took the time to make sure that the right(?) eye was the larger one for the behind shot, but didn't get the shadowing detail correct.

    But, I also find it hard to believe that someone can come up with all this wonderful material he puts out so often.

    Anyway, are we sure that it is MitD from behind, and not just him turned around? If it were really MitD from behind then I think we need to assume that he is invisible (at least while in darkness). Otherwise, we couldn't see his eyes through his skull.
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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    My apologies if this has been suggested before, but... What about SCP-682?

    The main problem I have with my theory is the age/maturity issue, and the hunters saying "one of these". Some of the rest can be explained quite easily by this creature: Near-invincible, incredibly strong, hideous (yet beautiful?)... It may also be a little tough to explain abilities like the Escape (an adaption?) or the possible rain-causing.

    EDIT: Also, the shout may be given for in one termination test for it: "SCP-682 issues several sounds at extremely high volume, damaging several recording devices. Sound extends across several wavelengths, reported as “the most god-awful roar” by staff."

    Actually, on further deliberation, this doesn't seem very likely, since 682 has a murderous hatred for all life, and because it would be completely destroying what little canon exists in the SCP Foundation. Oh well; I'll post it anyways to see what others think.


    Just realized that the monster was created after 2004. Back to the drawing board, then...
    Last edited by AtopTheMountain; 2010-10-08 at 04:03 PM.

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    I would suggest <a insert monster race that meets spell casting needs> with prestige class levels of Adipose Avatar

    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Adipose...Prestige_Class)

    this would explain:

    Super Strength
    Super Armor
    Hideous appearance
    Ability to eat ANYTHING

    can't think of any reason why this prestige class would be ruled out, but that's where you all come in!

  23. - Top - End - #833
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    cool Oh, it was so obvious......

    well, thanks for everyone who has worked on creating this list: without it, it wouldn't have become clear.
    It's pretty solid that the MiTD has to be a Magical Beast; game mechanics require that. But not some minor D&D critter: because we're all supposed to recognise him. Thus he is from other media.
    That immediately brings up the copyright problem, of course.

    But where we've made the mistake though is in assuming that the MiTD has to be totally in the public domain - some creations are still under copyright in one field but not in another.

    And yes, that the case with the MiTD's (grand)dad - his film rights are still under copyright, but his print rights have entered public domain.
    Further, the MiTD's (grand)dad had wildly varying sizes (a criticism of his first film), had people sacrificed to him but was nice to the one we meet, hated being stared at/photographed and made an impossible escape when this happened (this is what made me realise who he is) was immune to most damage, can only speak in some remakes, shook the earth when he moved and in the Japanese remake had magical powers.

    In case you haven't guessed yet, the MiTD is of the species Megaprimatus kong: and is descended from King Kong - possibly MiTD is Kong's son Kiko, or even Kiko's son.
    As such, he has a very good reason to be mistrustful of girls (twas beauty killed the beast) and will probably end up being killed by Sabine.

    [EDIT]: And of course, O-chul told us this! King Kong is described as "neither beast nor man", but O-chul insists on acknowledging his kinship with MiTD "you are a good man".
    Last edited by whitelaughter; 2010-10-08 at 01:58 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #834
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by bdh5533 View Post
    I would suggest <a insert monster race that meets spell casting needs> with prestige class levels of Adipose Avatar

    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Adipose...restige_Class)

    this would explain:

    Super Strength
    Super Armor
    Hideous appearance
    Ability to eat ANYTHING

    can't think of any reason why this prestige class would be ruled out, but that's where you all come in!
    As far as I can see the Prestige Class was first posted in 2009 and from what Rich has told us it would have had to be in existence in 2004. If I am correct, on that basis alone this can be ruled out and so I will not delve any further into its abilities

    Secondly, finding a creature meets the spell casting abilities required is the main problem with which we are faced

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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Oh, it was so obvious......

    Quote Originally Posted by whitelaughter View Post
    MiTD is of the species Megaprimatus kong: and is descended from King Kong - possibly MiTD is Kong's son Kiko, or even Kiko's son.
    On the face of it I think you make a fair argument I have been unable to find reference of the attributed "magical powers" with a simple google search. Could you please post a link to a page that can give us a more extensive description of the species and its magical powers?

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    Daemon

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead View Post
    My apologies if this has been suggested before, but... What about SCP-682?
    It has not been suggested before. What is it?...

    I read the wiki page you refer to, but I am none the wiser. You are probably right, though. -That it does not seem very likely

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    I'd say I have to admire the people who go through all this effort to try to find out what the MitD might be. However, I have to wonder if going about it through mainly game mechanics is the right way. Rich must certainly be aware that this forum is awash with D&D afficionados, so either he would have to choose a fairly obscure creature or a heavily modified one to keep the MitD in the dark as long as possible. And while such a creature might not be of Rich's making, it's reveal might still provoke the same "meh" reaction as the "therblewurkersaurus".

    I think a better way would be to take a creature that is in the public domain, not too clearly defined in terms of abilities, but still with a number of well known characteristics without any game relevance. This would leave Rich enough liberty to develop the abilities of the monster as he sees fit and as plot demands, while keeping the possibility of dropping hints as to its nature and avoid the "meh" reaction at its eventual reveal.

    I might even have a candidate, though I'll be the first to admit that the evidence is not entirely convincing. At best I might be right, at worst this might serve as an example of how to go looking for the MitD's identity while bypassing game mechanics.

    One might say my mind works sometimes in a bit weird way, but the MitD's childish nature and it having a teaparty, made me think of Lewis Carroll. There's certainly a fair number of bizarre and monstrous creatures in his work such as the Bandersnatch, the Jubjub bird or the Jabberwocky, with the added advantage that his works are all in the public domain.

    I first thought of the latter, because of the MitD's damage resistance and the Jabberwocky could only be killed with a vorpal sword. It also shares with the other monsters mentioned a habitat: an island filled with chasms and crags, which would explain the surprise of the hunters upon finding it in the rainforest.

    And then "hunters" made my mind wander again and I thought of one of the better known poems by Lewis Carroll, if only by name, "The Hunting of the Snark".

    The Snark has a few advantages: little is said about its abilities or appearance and in fact there exist (according to the poem) several varieties, but there are things known about it, which leaves enough opportunities to drop hints.

    Evidence that might confirm the MitD being a snark:
    - the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters certainly would have heard of the snark if it existed in the OotS world, from the poem it seems clear that hunting a snark would be in the league of hunting one of the Big Five game of Africa.
    - their surprise finding it in a rainforest, its normal habitat being the aforementioned craggy island.
    - one of the types of snark, the boojum, is scary enough that the mere mention of its name makes one of the hunters in the poem (the Baker) faint.
    - one of the characteristics of the snark is "its slowness in taking a jest". The MitD hasn't shown any sense of humor.

    Possible subtle hints:
    - In 476, fourth panel, Haley says: "Well, the thing under the umbrella is starting to talk about how he'd like to be the thimble this time".
    One of the repeated verses in the poem is: "They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care;"
    - In 477 the MitD says in third but last panel how O-Chul can be the banker.
    In the poem the Banker is one of the hunters and gets incapacitated (though not paralyzed).
    So I'm thinking that the monopoly thing might be a cover to sneak in these two references and maybe even an indirect third one. In the poem it also says: "They threatened its life with a railway-share;". On the board there are four railways.

    Other points:
    One of the characteristics mentioned is:
    "Its habit of getting up late you'll agree
    That it carries too far"
    which might tie in with MitD's laziness.

    Another quote:
    "'But oh, beamish nephew, beware of the day,
    If your Snark be a Boojum! For then
    You will softly and suddenly vanish away,
    And never be met with again!'
    might tie in with having the MitD make V & O-Chul disappear (tenuous evidence, I'll admit).

    Evidence against:
    One of the characteristics:
    "The fourth is its fondness for bathing-machines,
    Which is constantly carries about,"
    OTOH, we don't know what the MitD might be hiding under that umbrella.

    And another one:
    "The fifth is ambition."
    Well, the MitD certainly hasn't shown any ambition up until now.

    Link to "The Hunting of the Snark" at project Gutenberg.

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Interesting ideas, but I doubt that either King Kong or the Snark could instantly understand Tsukiko's ritual.

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    Default Re: MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

    Well, the Snark theory is strange -- but nothing else seems to fit, so why not?

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    Default Re: Oh, it was so obvious......

    Quote Originally Posted by whitelaughter View Post
    But not some minor D&D critter: because we're all supposed to recognise him.
    Not so. Just because his identity is guessable (which is what Rich said) doesn't mean that his identity is something everybody would be expected to know. Any monster somebody has listed in this topic, no matter how obscure, is guessable, because somebody has guessed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant
    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes, characters that have a similar hairstyle just have a similar hairstyle. How many hairstyles do you think there are that can be drawn in stick figure style, anyway?

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