Can you TWF with just unarmed?

[Frosty]

You don't have two weapons equipped, but is there really anything that says you can't kick AND headbutt?

Can one use Wolf Fang Strike (a low level Tiger Claw maneuver) with only unarmed?

[Keld Denar]

This is a huge debate. RAW can go either way. No balance reason why you shouldn't allow it. Ask your DM.

[Lord Vukodlak]

When the book says their is no off hand for a monk they simply mean when you flurry it can be with any part of our body its just part of the normal attack routine. More fluff then anything.

But down to the rules, yes you can, the off hand attacks follow all the normal rules. But you could have main hand +15/+10/+5 and off hand +15/+10/+5
[not accounting for any bonuses or penalties on attack rolls for simplicity].
You can even flurry at the same time gaining two additional attacks on your main hand.

The quickest way to look at it is this,
A monk can do TWF with his unarmed strike and a manufactured weapon, simply remove the manufactured and replace with a fist.

[lsfreak]

You can even flurry at the same time gaining two additional attacks on your main hand.

That's what's really heavily debated. Monk has a single weapon - his unarmed strike is one weapon. Thus he cannot TWF with it. Or maybe he can. Ask your DM.

[Frosty]

That's what's really heavily debated. Monk has a single weapon - his unarmed strike is one weapon. Thus he cannot TWF with it. Or maybe he can. Ask your DM.

but let's say he wears a gauntlet on one hand. Suddenly he can TWF? That makes no sense whatsoever.

[lsfreak]

but let's say he wears a gauntlet on one hand. Suddenly he can TWF? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes, but now he can't flurry, since it's not a monk weapon..

Personally, I let anyone TWF with unarmed strikes, and let monks TWF + flurry if they really want to miss that often.

[Cog]

but let's say he wears a gauntlet on one hand. Suddenly he can TWF? That makes no sense whatsoever.

It's not how gauntlets work, either. All they do is modify your unarmed attack - so, by RAW, the fact that you've got a metal glove on means your headbutts can do lethal damage. Yes, that makes even less sense.

As for using a headbutt and a punch, that's the same as asking whether the point of a sword and the edge of the sword allow you to make additional attacks - i.e., sure, if your BAB is at least 6.

[lsfreak]

It's not how gauntlets work, either. All they do is modify your unarmed attack - so, by RAW, the fact that you've got a metal glove on means your headbutts can do lethal damage. Yes, that makes even less sense.

Actually, by RAW, it seems possible that only a monk's unarmed strike can be made with any body part. The non-monk unarmed strike, listed with the rest of the weapons, lacks the clause that it can be used with any body part; thus, the wording at least leans towards the non-monk US can only be make with normal hands (mainhand, offhand), though it certainly doesn't come out and say it.

EDIT: Basically what it comes down to is, everything relating to Unarmed Strike - a monk's or anyone else's - is subject to some of the muddiest wording of anything WotC published, and your best bet is to ask your DM, because RAW is ambiguous at best and facepalmingly nonsensical at worst.

[UglyPanda]

There are two simple interpretations:
-No you can't, a character only has one "unarmed strike" weapon and the body part used is simply fluff.
-Yes you can, but you can only use two hands because the DM says so.

I personally have issues regarding the latter interpretation, but I'm sure someone will think it makes sense.

[Curmudgeon]

Actually, by RAW, it seems possible that only a monk's unarmed strike can be made with any body part. The non-monk unarmed strike, listed with the rest of the weapons, lacks the clause that it can be used with any body part

You should check again. From the Combat chapter, Standard Actions section, "Attack":

Unarmed Attacks

Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following ...

That's every unarmed attack, not just Monks'.

[Keld Denar]

As I've said in the past, it is worthwhile to TWF with Flurry and UAS if you have full progression flurry (like from Tashalatora) and a means of size scaling your UAS damage, then your flurry penalties are negated by level 9, you get an extra attack at level 11, and each hit is 6d6 or more, then it is generally well placed to gain as many extra attacks between flurry, snap kick, and TWF as possible.

[Ravens_cry]

Damage reduction is still a complete bastard to any 'death by a thousand cuts' damage dealer.

[lsfreak]

You should check again.

So I should I hate when they put related materials in vastly different places...

[Hague]

I'm afraid I have to side with the people saying that it is its own single weapon. The "unarmed strike" is your weapon since humanoids don't have natural slam attacks. Natural weapon means you are "armed" with that weapon. Now, if you had a slam attack naturally, you could use your unarmed strike as your primary weapon and the slam attack as a secondary weapon. You must have a second weapon, be it natural or artificial, in order to use TWF.

[dextercorvia]

US is a single weapon, but with so many 'ends' perhaps it counts as a double weapon.

[Grommen]

Yes, but now he can't flurry, since it's not a monk weapon..

Personally, I let anyone TWF with unarmed strikes, and let monks TWF + flurry if they really want to miss that often.

That is where I stand on it.

Pathfinder's Flurry of Blows is TWF (-2 for each hand) but at full BAB. Works for me...

But really if you like rolling dice and hoping for the best. By all means get that TWF with your monk and flail away!

[Soras Teva Gee]

Damage reduction is still a complete bastard to any 'death by a thousand cuts' damage dealer.

Well there's Ki Strike for three of them and Silversheen and Oil of Bless Weapon for two more are cheap items. Cold Iron is a concern but I wouldn't be surprised if there's something out there to give that as a buff and if not I'm not sure where its common and there isn't another method available like most demons also having /good.

[Hague]

I reaffirm by my belief that Kensai is the natural progression of the Monk class. So many opportunities for item feature abuse... The description of Signature Weapon states that a monk can enchant both of his fists, meaning that both of his fists are a weapon, allowing TWF... man, this IS confusing...

I mean, imagine, using Monk 11/Kensai 9 and picking up a pair of +5 defending, soulstrike, impedence fists. The Soulstrike ability lets you allocate the enhancement bonus from your fists into a +10 untyped bonus to saving throws vs. spells, much like the defending power will let you transfer your enhancement bonus from the fists to an untyped bonus to your AC. The Impedence power makes it so that when you strike an enemy their spells and spell-like abilities become impeded for 1d6 rounds as if they were on a plane opposed to their magic (all of it) They must succeed in a Spellcraft, intelligence or charisma check against 15+the spell's level or it fails. Hee hee.

I could go with Implacable instead, which would make the monk's enemies die Fist of the North-Star style, 5 attacks at 20/20/20/15/10 (Depending on TWF, factoring in the enhancement bonus if used.) that deal 1d10+5 + 2 points per enemy turn for 5 rounds, with the wounds stacking. Meaning, if I hit an enemy 5 times, they take 10 points for the following five rounds. The damage continues to stack, so another 5 hits deals 20 on the following round.

I could add the Metalline power instead, which would give them the ability to change their fists to be silver, cold iron or adamantine.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Not confusing to me Two Weapon Fighting makes mention of it as a light weapon. You have two fists, so if you want to pay the penalty then why the hell not. Seems to me RAI, RAMS, support it and unless we can get something more explicit in RAW it there you go.

I also agree that Kensai makes so much sense for Monks. Try it when the DM is letting you take Vow of Poverty too.

[JaronK]

IIRC there was actually a rules discussion on the official webpate on this very subject, which stated that you could do it. It's usually not a great idea, but you could.

JaronK

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I know "The Sage" is often a joke to cite, but his imput could further muddle the waters of this issue as he suggests that it takes the Quick Draw feat to switch a weapon from one hand to the other in between iterative attacks. What this implies, to me, is that a monk could end up using the aforementioned feat in order to switch a properly enchanted gauntlet from hand to hand in order to utilize two weapon fighting with the single equipped "weapon". What a mental image, eh?

[Maerok]

There's a Rayman Monk/Kensai build around here somewhere that lets you throw your fists, IIRC.

[Curmudgeon]

Not confusing to me Two Weapon Fighting makes mention of it as a light weapon. You have two fists, so if you want to pay the penalty then why the hell not.

Why is the number of fists relevant? They're just a part of the unarmed strike "ends" of your single natural weapon. You've also got two feet, one head, two elbows, two knees, two hips, and one butt (if you want to sit on someone to pin them). Unless there's a Boxer class, where only the fists can be used as unarmed weapons, fists are irrelevant. After all, you can fight unarmed when both your hands are occupied.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Why is the number of fists relevant? They're just a part of the unarmed strike "ends" of your single natural weapon. You've also got two feet, one head, two elbows, two knees, two hips, and one butt (if you want to sit on someone to pin them). Unless there's a Boxer class, where only the fists can be used as unarmed weapons, fists are irrelevant. After all, you can fight unarmed when both your hands are occupied.

Off hand I can't think of why its relevant to just normal fighting. If someone really wanted to I can't think of reason, at the moment, why you couldn't use a greatsword and get a extra attack by butt-checking some guy. With the appropriate penalties and all

Though it is relevant for some places like Kensai who would need to pay different XP costs for their signature weapon and an example given is they have to pay for both fist as all iterations of a natural weapon must be covered.

[Greenish]

Pathfinder's Flurry of Blows is TWF (-2 for each hand) but at full BAB. Works for me...

Why they didn't just give monks full BAB is beyond me. They go out of their way to give Monks full BAB "only" when flurrying and for the purposes of CMB and CMD…

Unless there's a Boxer class, where only the fists can be used as unarmed weapons, fists are irrelevant.

There's fighter variant called "Pugilist". I don't remember it specifying anything, though.

[Amphetryon]

Off hand I can't think of why its relevant to just normal fighting. If someone really wanted to I can't think of reason, at the moment, why you couldn't use a greatsword and get a extra attack by butt-checking some guy. With the appropriate penalties and all

Though it is relevant for some places like Kensai who would need to pay different XP costs for their signature weapon and an example given is they have to pay for both fist as all iterations of a natural weapon must be covered.

Thanks for making me picture a Kensai whose butt is his signature weapon...

[Matthew]

The problem is that between D20/3e and D20/3.5 the "off hand" switched from the "left" (or if you are a lefty, the right) hand to something more ambiguous. In the glossary of the PHB the 3.0 version still holds true, and it is pretty obvious what the intent was, you make primary attacks with your primary hand and secondary attacks with your secondary hand. If, for some reason, you decided to make an attack with another body part then life gets confusing because the general case for attacks never really considered the possibility. Can a creature with six arms use multi weapon fighting to make six head butt attacks? Probably not, but it does make one primary attack and five off handed attacks in whatever fashion seems most logical.

[Prime32]

Thanks for making me picture a Kensai whose butt is his signature weapon...

Nah, the "iconic" unarmed kensai applies the sizing, flaming and vorpal properties to his... thing. So that he can cut peoples' heads off with it from 10ft away.

[Person_Man]

Official FAQ says yes. I do as well, for what it's worth.

[Il_Vec]

You don't have two weapons equipped, but is there really anything that says you can't kick AND headbutt?

Can one use Wolf Fang Strike (a low level Tiger Claw maneuver) with only unarmed?

Unrelated to the anwser of the first question, the second one is answered Yes, you can use the Wolf Fang Strike. The maneuver explicitly allows you to make an unarmed attack if you are using one weapon. If you can TWF with unarmed, then you are in the first clause, and use your two unarmed atacks. If unarmed is a single weapon, you are wielding One Weapon, and fit in the second clause, being allowed to use unarmed as your second strike. Ugly, but it actually works.