[d20 Modern] Non-Lethal Damage

[Jack Zander]

Am I reading the rules correctly in regards to non-lethal damage? Two people, both with a 10 in STR and CON and 0 BAB can never knock each other out in a fist fight. In order to make a brawler who only knocks people out (never kills them) you have to focus on the build entirely, and then as soon as your get Improved Knockout Punch and Improved Feint (and maybe Power Attack), you automatically knock out 1 person every round or so (but only for 1d4+1 rounds :[ lame). This does no seem very balanced nor does it seem realistic to me.

[Jack Zander]

Bump

Does no one play d20 Modern anymore? Or is anyone here at least familiar with the rules?

[SurlySeraph]

Yep, that's correct. There was some article on the WotC site defending it, but I don't feel like digging up the link. d20 Modern has a few silly things like that in it.

[TheOOB]

Personally if I want to use d20 outside of a heroic fantasy setting I prefer True20 by Green Ronin.

[Xallace]

Nonlethal Damage
Nonlethal damage is dealt by unarmed attackers and some weapons. Melee weapons that deal lethal damage can be wielded so as to deal nonlethal damage, but the attacker takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls for trying to deal nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. A ranged weapon that deals lethal damage can’t be made to deal nonlethal damage (unless it is used as an improvised melee weapon).
Nonlethal damage does not affect the target’s hit points. Instead, compare the amount of nonlethal damage from an attack to the target’s massive damage threshold. If the amount is less than the target’s massive damage threshold, the target is unaffected by the attack.
If the damage equals or exceeds the target’s massive damage threshold, the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 15). If the target succeeds on the save, the target is dazed for 1 round. If the target fails, he or she is knocked unconscious for 1d4+1 rounds.

Well I... I'd never seen that before. I suppose that's simpler than the v3.5 way of doing it, but at the same time, really silly.

Although you could easily track nonlethal damage as per v3.5, and then apply the Damage Threshold clause when appropriate.

[Jack Zander]

See, I really like how they do it, but it has the complicated problems of many characters not being able to ever knock someone out ever, even on a crit, and the knockout duration is too low (as well as the Fort save DC).

Tracking non-lethal damage DnD style is probably the way to go with this clause thrown in.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I just ignore that rule, cause it leads to the silliness the OP has cited.

Generally, I just use the D&D non-lethal damage rule, but if any single hit of non-lethal damage exceeds the massive damage threshold of a character, they must make the DC15 save as per RAW.