Half-Dragon question

[klemdakherzbag]

If i put the Half-Dragon template onto a medium sized creature with Powerful Build - Goliath or Half-Giant - would they be able to gain wings from the half dragon template? Also are they any other races with powerful build?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think by RAW yes, since powerful build lets them count as large when it is beneficial for them, and having wings sure is beneficial, also take into account that they would get higher damage dice for ther bite and claw damage.

And AFAIK the only races that get powerful build are goliath and half-giant

[KillianHawkeye]

•Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.

Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.

A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

As written, it wouldn't work. They are only counted as one size larger for size modifiers on opposed checks (if beneficial), being subjected to special attacks that are limited by the target's size, and wielding larger weapons. It doesn't actually make you Large, which is the requirement for Half-Dragon wings.

However, a tasty DM bribe might allow it to be house-ruled.

[Flickerdart]

Frankly, Half-Dragon isn't that great even with wings, so the template is by no means broken if everything gets them.

[Marriclay]

Frankly, Half-Dragon isn't that great even with wings, so the template is by no means broken if everything gets them.

I agree. see if you can get him to allow the Pathfinder version - you essentially lose the breath weapon, but it's just a +2 LA, has +4 more con, and everybody gets wings

[KillianHawkeye]

I agree. see if you can get him to allow the Pathfinder version - you essentially lose the breath weapon, but it's just a +2 LA, has +4 more con, and everybody gets wings

And considering the 3.5 version's breath weapon is only once per day, that's not really a huge loss.

[Flickerdart]

And considering the 3.5 version's breath weapon is only once per day, that's not really a huge loss.

You can grab a feat at 6HD which lets you breathe like a real dragon, every 1d4 rounds, which means you can take some hilariously broken metabreath feats.

[Greenish]

You can grab a feat at 6HD which lets you breathe like a real dragon, every 1d4 rounds, which means you can take some hilariously broken metabreath feats.

Or you can bow to Bahamut and spare your feat.

[PersonMan]

Or you can bow to Bahamut and spare your feat.

I'm still wondering how your feat can get hilariously broken. It sounds pretty painful to me...

[Dusk Eclipse]

You can grab a feat at 6HD which lets you breathe like a real dragon, every 1d4 rounds, which means you can take some hilariously broken metabreath feats.

I like half shadow dragons and using that feat, ah the joys of negative levels at will

[Runestar]

The breath weapon's DC also doesn't scale with class lvs, meaning your foes will most likely make their reflex saves at higher lvs.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The breath weapon's DC also doesn't scale with class lvs, meaning your foes will most likely make their reflex saves at higher lvs.

they don't ?... guess I have played with a house rule all this time...

[Marriclay]

they don't ?... guess I have played with a house rule all this time...

it's not something that's always recognized. The rule makes sense, but it seems to me that becoming better in battle should qualify you for being better at aiming your breath weapon and getting more out of it. besides, it's not like it was broken to begin with

[Runestar]

they don't ?... guess I have played with a house rule all this time...

The breath weapon DC scales only with racial HD, not class lvs. So for a half-dragon fighter20 with 20con, the DC is a crummy 15. Odd that it seems to benefit a monster npc more than a PC (what between the conditional wings, increased racial HD/skill points and all).

It's almost as though wotc didn't want us playing monster PCs...

[Skeppio]

It's almost as though wotc didn't want us playing monster PCs...

And then Savage Species came along.

WotC, I am disappoint.

[lightningcat]

We've always used the house rule that if a half dragon want's wings, they get them. Never caused any problems, and the option isn't even always taken.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

Personal. . . using the 3.5 half dragon. . .i house rule that you go up a size catagory and everybody gets wings.
Because in my mind if your mother was a 100lb elf and your father was a 6 ton dragon. . . you'd be a big kid. . .

[Runestar]

Personally, I would just scrap the wings, revise its breath weapon to scale in line with the dragonborn's breath weapon, and lower its LA to +2. It comes across as a tad too weak for LA+3, IMO.

[2xMachina]

Half Minotaur Half Dragon. Large with wings.