Theoretically...

[Another_Poet]

Let's say a race has LA +1 and no racial HD. The race gives you a +6 adjustment to your casting stat (one stat only, either Int, Wis or Cha, your choice). There are no other benefits or drawbacks to the race.

1) Would you consider it worthwhile to use this race with a full casting class?

2) What if LA Buyoff is not allowed?

[Ranos]

1) Well, with LA Buyoff, maybe. A +3 to DCs and a few bonus spells is not worth losing racial features AND a level, but a LA+1 is gotten over pretty quick with those rules.

2) No way

[PId6]

1. If LA Buyoff is allowed, definitely.
2. Probably not. I lose a 9th level slot from that lost level, and +6 Int/Wis/Cha doesn't provide an extra 9th or 8th level slot compared to a +2 (assuming the maximum of 34 achievable from a starting 18).

[Raistlin1040]

Well let's analyze this from a gaming perspective. At Party Level 5, you are 4th level. Let's presume you're a Wizard. You started with 18 INT, and you dropped your level up point in it, so your total after adjustment is 25. At 4th level, you get 4 Level 0, 3 level 1, and 2 level 2. With bonus spells, you get 5 level 1s, and 4 level 2s. If you had 19 INT and were level 5, you get one less level 1 and one less level 2, but you get two level threes to make up for it.

Party level 10, you're level 9. You've dropped another point and got a headband of intellect +4. You're sitting at 30 INT. Bonus spells. 3 level 1, 3 level 2, 2 level 3, 2 level 4, 2 level 5. If you were level 10, you'd naturally have 1 more spell in 4th and 5th level, but without your +6 bonus, you'd have the same number after bonus spells, but you'd have one less 1st and 2nd level spell per day.

Party Level 20, you're level 19. You've dropped 2 more points in INT, and have traded up to a Headband+6. You now have 34 INT. A level 20 Wizard has one more level 8 and one more level 9 spell than you at level 19, but with your bonus spells, you make that difference up (for the level 8), and also get one more of every level between 2 and 7. You have to eat that level 9, but I'd do it.

At lower levels, you get less higher level spells and more lower level ones, like a sorcerer. As you get to higher level, even if you're behind a spell level, the extra bonus spells are worth it. It sucks to lose something like Fire Storm, or whatever, but if you get an extra Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, and Fireball, the actual damage output isn't as bad. If you're a buff/prep wizard, having more Invisibilities might be better than a higher level anyway.

As you get to higher levels, this really shows its strength. By taking Wizard 20, someone gets a bonus feat, and +1 to BAB and saves. At 19, you get 6 extra spells between level 2 and level 7. I'd take that tradeoff.

And yes +3 to DCs. That's an extra 15% chance for your opponent to fail, which is useful when you're throwing around Save Or Die and Save Or Suck spells.

[Sc00by]

I don't get the optimiser guys, I think. For me +3 to every DC from levels 1-19 (you know when you are actually playing the character) is better than an extra level 8 and 9 spell @ level 20 when you're probably about to stop playing the character. Unless you know that the campaign is going to go epic, then it may be a consideration.

I'd go for it. I like nice high DCs on my crowd control spells. YMMV

I don't play with buy off either and I'd still go for it...

[PersonMan]

Really in-depth analysis

I agree. 100%.

Is this a real race(or a concept/idea), or is it really theoretical?

[Greenish]

+6 to one stat, and no other racial features?

Meh, humans are still stronger, but on the other hand you could get an awesome Dragonborn out of that hypothetical race.

[PId6]

I don't get the optimiser guys, I think. For me +3 to every DC from levels 1-19 (you know when you are actually playing the character) is better than an extra level 8 and 9 spell @ level 20 when you're probably about to stop playing the character. Unless you know that the campaign is going to go epic, then it may be a consideration.

I'd go for it. I like nice high DCs on my crowd control spells. YMMV

I don't play with buy off either and I'd still go for it...

There's also the big difference of being half a spell level behind. That's always been quite a big annoyance to me when I play sorcerers (seeing as that's part of their class features...). So at every odd ECL, you're a level behind (for prepared casters), and at every even ECL you're not much better off.

Since you're getting your world-shattering spells a bit later, the early levels are sufficiently decided in favor of no LA in my opinion. At that point, the question is whether it's more worthwhile at high levels, that that's determined by what it does for your best spells. I found that it doesn't actually do all that much, since it doesn't change the number of 8th or 9th level spells you can get. Thus, I don't think being behind in your entire career is worth a few +'s to your DCs.

[Sc00by]

Thus, I don't think being behind in your entire career is worth a few +'s to your DCs.

There we shall have to agree to disagree then I guess.

As you get to higher levels, this really shows its strength. By taking Wizard 20, someone gets a bonus feat, and +1 to BAB and saves. At 19, you get 6 extra spells between level 2 and level 7. I'd take that tradeoff.

And yes +3 to DCs. That's an extra 15% chance for your opponent to fail, which is useful when you're throwing around Save Or Die and Save Or Suck spells.

Was posted while I was writing mine and if I'd seen it I wouldn't have posted, as the above sums up my feelings exactly. Making that phantasmal killer or baleful polymorph save DC as high as possible is what matters IMHO. Having an extra 'gate' when I already own the game, not so much...

As for 'racial features' I normally forget about them anyway, so no great loss there :)

[Another_Poet]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Is this a real race(or a concept/idea), or is it really theoretical?

It is totally theoretical for now, but based on what I've heard here I might consider homebrewing it for an upcoming campaign. I might toss the race some other minor freebie like lowlight vision but with the +6 stat for the cheap price of LA+1 it can't get too many extras.

ap

[IonDragon]

Theoretically, theory and practice are the same. However in practice, they are not.

Okay, I'm going to read your post now.

EDIT: Looks like the points have been made clearly enough already. Have a nice day.

[Endarire]

+6 INT for a Wizard is a handy starting point, but not worth losing a level. Levels are the most efficient ways of gaining power because of class features.

As a caster, I want to reach level 3 spells ASAP. Since I rarely play to level 5 spells and beyond, I want those too.

With LA buyoff, I might take this template as-is. It largely depends on the starting level.

[Coidzor]

Hmm... I wonder how that extra level of PrCing that starts before this guy can PrC compares.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I'll echo the "you're half a spell level behind" crowd. LA buyoff is the deciding factor for me. +6 int on a wizard is nothing to sneeze at, but I would probably be grumbling to myself at every odd ECL if I couldn't just take the XP hit early.

[mucat]

As an optimization exercise:

With LA buyoff: definitely. Only have to wait 3 levels to get rid of the LA, and a caster can entertain themselves a few levels by tossing around alchemist's fire and tanglefoot bags when they're out of spells. Or Scribe a lot of scrolls and buff your friends. When you DO cast an offensive spell, that +3 DC will make for some devastating save-or-loses at low level.

Without LA Buyoff: Probably not...unless I plan on focusing strongly on save-or-lose spells, rather than buffing or battlefield control. If this is your focus, then a primary advantage of higher-level spells is the increased save DC, so +3 DC on everything is worth running a half a spell level behind.

In a real campaign:

Depends totally on fluff and character concept. A species with +6 to a mental stat is probably very different, culturally and psychologically, from humans. If I want to play a character of that culture, then the +1 LA is tolerable, and the +6 caster stat is a damn nice consolation prize. If I would rather play a culturally human or near-human character, then I'll stay away from the genius species, even if I could harmlessly buy off their LA.

[Greenish]

It is totally theoretical for now, but based on what I've heard here I might consider homebrewing it for an upcoming campaign. I might toss the race some other minor freebie like lowlight vision but with the +6 stat for the cheap price of LA+1 it can't get too many extras.

ap

A bonus to one attribute and nothing else is incredibly bland. Even humans have more flavour than that, and they're vanilla!

[Irreverent Fool]

A Magic-Blooded Death-Touched has the following stats:

Spoiler

Show

-2 Con
+6 Cha
Low-Light Vision
+2 Racial Bonus to Knowledge(Arcana)
+2 Racial Bonus to Spellcraft

Resistance to Cold 5
Resistance to Electricity 5

The creature may use the following spell-like abilities once per day:
Detect Magic 1/day
Nystul's Magic Aura 1/day
Chill Touch 1/day

A Magic-Blooded creature can use Knowledge(Arcana) and Spellcraft untrained.

Favored Class: Sorcerer

Level Adjustment +1

The Death-Touched entry mentions that the example is only the most common type of Death-Touched, from which one may make the logical jump that it may be applied as a template. In this case, we can get a Magic-Blooded Death-Touched Lesser Aasimar:

Spoiler

Show

-2 Con
+2 Wis
+8 Cha
Low-Light Vision
+2 Racial Bonus to Knowledge(Arcana)
+2 Racial Bonus to Listen
+2 Racial Bonus to Spellcraft
+2 Racial Bonus to Spot

Resistance to Cold 5
Resistance to Electricity 5

The creature may use the following spell-like abilities once per day:
Detect Magic 1/day
Nystul's Magic Aura 1/day
Chill Touch 1/day

A Magic-Blooded creature can use Knowledge(Arcana) and Spellcraft untrained.

Favored Class: Sorcerer

Level Adjustment +1

Granted, a sorcerer is already a level behind in his casting, so maybe we shouldn't consider Charisma so great as say, Intelligence or Wisdom. You could make up for this by playing a Magic-Blooded White Dragonspawn Lesser Aasimar and gain +1 level to your Sorcerer casting, though you'd only get a +4 Cha for that total of +1 LA. At that point you could add Death-Touched back in and get +8 Cha for +2 LA, which would still only be +1 LA as far as your Sorcerer casting was concerned.

Assuming your theoretical +6 primary casting stat race got no other monstrously significant abilities, I see no problem with its placement at LA +1. As previous posters have shown, some would take it and some would not, with or without buyoff. That is practically the very definition of balance. I'd probably give it a -2 to something just to be sure, but that's a discussion for the Homebrew Boards.

Myself? I'd still rather play a human for the bonus feat and getting shiny new spells as early as possible. With no buyoff, an EL9 fight with 5th-level spells is more exciting than an EL9 fight with 4th-level spells. With buyoff, well... it's still hard to compare to a bonus feat.

White Dragonspawn: Dragonlance Campaign Setting
Lesser Aasimar: Player's Guide to Faerun
Death-Touched: Dragon #313
Magic-Blooded: Dragon #306

[Another_Poet]

Wow, incredibly helpful post, Irreverent. Thank you! The comparisons, commentary and the footnotes for where to find the crunch are all superb.