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Thread: Scout build:
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2010-06-16, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Scout build:
Ok so as far as I can see this is the best build I can make for what I am trying to do. Melee rogue who can also be a skill monkey.....
Whisper Gnome
Rogue 4/Ranger 2/C-Cleric 1/Ranger 4/Rogue 9
Feats:
1-Weapon Finese
3-Blind Fight
BF-Track
6-Mage Slayer
BF-Two Weapon Fighting
DT-Travel Devotion/Trickery Devotion
DT-Water Devotion
DT-Knowledge Devotion
BF-Endurance
9-Pierce magical Concealment
BF-Improved TWF
12-Greater TWF
15- Dark Stalker
18- honestly dont know. I need suggestions.
S.A. from rogue 10/13
Skill mastery,Slippery mind
SpoilerI Am A: Lawful Good Human Ranger (3rd Level)Ability ScoresStrength: 15Dexterity: 18Constitution: 16Intelligence: 16Wisdom: 16Charisma: 14Find yours here: http://www.easydamus.com/character.html
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2010-06-16, 03:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
How is this a Scout build? Scouts stay out of melee. There's nothing there about stealth or reconnoitering.
You might do better with a change to the thread title.
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2010-06-16, 04:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
Swordsage.
<edit> also Swift HunterLast edited by Gnaritas; 2010-06-16 at 04:35 AM.
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2010-06-16, 06:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
I was going to reccomend Swift Hunter, but then I realized there aren't actually any Scout levels in your "Scout build".
Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2010-06-16 at 06:37 AM.
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2010-06-16, 07:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
Quick thought: Weapon Finesse requires BAB +1 . As a Rogue of first level you do not yet qualify.
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2010-06-16, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
@ Curmudgeon- Just because the title says scout doesn't mean you have to be a scout. Like playing a paladin with a crusader. Same name different class.
The idea is to maximize stealth based ideas while taking advantage of two Weapon fighting. I know there is no scout but that is the role he is filling.
Also does S.A. work on all irative attacks such as for having a High enough BAB?
Also the build is starting at level 6. So weapon finese works either way.Last edited by Os1ris09; 2010-06-16 at 03:58 PM. Reason: new post:
SpoilerI Am A: Lawful Good Human Ranger (3rd Level)Ability ScoresStrength: 15Dexterity: 18Constitution: 16Intelligence: 16Wisdom: 16Charisma: 14Find yours here: http://www.easydamus.com/character.html
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2010-06-16, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-06-16, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
Last edited by Curmudgeon; 2010-06-16 at 04:18 PM.
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2010-06-16, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
Re: Scout build:
A scout should be stealthy indeed, and needs to have good eyes and ears. It needs those to do the scouting functions.
But stay out of melee does not seem like a prerequisite. It is the view you have on a scout and probably a sniping scout is indeed the more traditional view, but still.
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2010-06-16, 05:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
Well the skills maxed are as follows:
Listen, Search, Spot, Hide, Move Silently, Disable Device, Open Lock, Use Magic Device
I am asking for advice to help with the concept not a critique on what constitutes as a scout. No harsh tone in there btw just making sure we all know what I am looking for.
I agree and the way I view a scout is someone who does just that, scouts the area and reports back, nothing in that description has to do with battle OR how they fight.
SpoilerI Am A: Lawful Good Human Ranger (3rd Level)Ability ScoresStrength: 15Dexterity: 18Constitution: 16Intelligence: 16Wisdom: 16Charisma: 14Find yours here: http://www.easydamus.com/character.html
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2010-06-16, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
I see what you are trying to do, however you are crippled by poor synergy with your classes.
The first four levels need to be actually Scout, not Rogue. They still get Trapfinding, they still get all the skills you want.
Reason: Swift Hunter.
This lets you apply precision-based damage to Favored Enemies, so you choose Undead/Constructs/Plants/Oozes as your Favored Enemies and you can Sneak Attack practically everything.
The one-level dip in Cloistered Cleric is still a good reason for Devotions, most specifically is Travel Devotion. This gives you another Move action, which lets you Skirmish much more frequently. You will also want to do Knowledge Devotion for extra damage output.
An alternative to Travel Devotion would be a one-level dip in Lion-Totem Barbarian for Pounce, which is godlike for any TWF build.
After Swift hunter and your cherry-pick Cloistered Cleric dip, you got some more options, but my first suggestion to you would be a dip into Swordsage. This nets you:
* Assassin's Stance. Yes, it's that good.
* Shadow Blade. Dex to Damage? Dex to Hit? Who needs Strength?
* Sapphire Nightmare Blade. Target is declared Flat-Footed for your attack. Good against things with Uncanny Dodge. Bonus points if you say 'Dodge This' as you activate.
Then finish off with more Ranger. Because Ranger = more Skirmish due to Swift Hunter.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
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2010-06-16, 06:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
Ok I like the idea and may change the race because of it. Honestly though Whisper Gnome is the best rogue race and more importantly I may have to do some convincing to the player for her to try it out. Honestly though I have done a Ranger/scout/Dervish build before in a lvl 30 campaign so I know how scout and ranger synergize. I was going for the fluff in the RoS that states that whisper gnomes who are rogues usually multi-class into ranger,cleric, or fighter. Taking the best two out of the three which is why I did it. Unfortunately though I forgot all about the XP penalty for classing c-cleric and ranger.
So back to the drawing board.... ugh......
SpoilerI Am A: Lawful Good Human Ranger (3rd Level)Ability ScoresStrength: 15Dexterity: 18Constitution: 16Intelligence: 16Wisdom: 16Charisma: 14Find yours here: http://www.easydamus.com/character.html
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2010-06-16, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
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2010-06-16, 09:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
It rules with alchemist fire arrows or a sling with the same. You deal sneak attack dmg in the same type as the weapon. Now your sneak attacks can be touch attacks dealing fire damage. Swift tracker makes this work for undead. This gets around quite a bit of DR. You have to worry about FR, but that is why you carry liquid salt arrows as well if your DM will houserule those in. Desicration damage! Almost nothing resists that! Trolls will fear you!
I think you can use it as a melee splash weapon as well. Look into the rules. At level 6 being able to pull out a odd damage type as a touch attack is powerful. Doubly so if you can turn that into a sneak attack. Keep a few bottles of any splash weapon you can get your hands on. It healps to be prepared. I think there is Holy, Unholy, Fire, Acid, Frost, Desicration, and a few others. Track them down and carry them all.Last edited by Fouredged Sword; 2010-06-16 at 09:54 PM.
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2010-06-17, 02:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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SpoilerI Am A: Lawful Good Human Ranger (3rd Level)Ability ScoresStrength: 15Dexterity: 18Constitution: 16Intelligence: 16Wisdom: 16Charisma: 14Find yours here: http://www.easydamus.com/character.html
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2010-06-17, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
Meh, a one-level dip in Warlock is better, because it does about the same damage, is also a ranged touch attack, doesn't have to worry about energy immunities, doesn't eat up your WBL, and also nets you either Darkness for DotUD darkness-feats, or Beguiling Influence for diplomancy cheese.
And yes, you can sneak attack with anything that requires an attack roll and has a specific target.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
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2010-06-17, 02:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
Ok... But where does it state that specifically?
"Basically, the rogue's attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."
That is verbatum from the PH and it only states "attack" which is leading me towards a singular strike or attack. Not multiples.... Please help me out on how you guys are getting SA to apply to each and every attack.
SpoilerI Am A: Lawful Good Human Ranger (3rd Level)Ability ScoresStrength: 15Dexterity: 18Constitution: 16Intelligence: 16Wisdom: 16Charisma: 14Find yours here: http://www.easydamus.com/character.html
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2010-06-17, 02:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
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2010-06-17, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
SpoilerI Am A: Lawful Good Human Ranger (3rd Level)Ability ScoresStrength: 15Dexterity: 18Constitution: 16Intelligence: 16Wisdom: 16Charisma: 14Find yours here: http://www.easydamus.com/character.html
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2010-06-17, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-06-17, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-06-17, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
Re: Scout build:
For Manyshot, you're right, only 1st can apply precision damage. It is explicitly stated.
For those that don't? Applies for each and every.
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2010-06-17, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
Here's what I'd do for what you seem to be looking for:
Scout 3/Ranger 3/Dread Commando 5/Ranger 9
Use the Champion of the Wild and Distracting Attack ranger alternate class features. Champion of the Wild (Complete Champion) removes your spellcasting and gives you a bonus fighter feat every four ranger levels. Distracting Attack (Player's Handbook II) removes your animal companion (which is pretty shoddy anyway) and gives you the ability to flat-foot your opponents. The Scout ACF is interesting, but probably not worthwhile for what you're doing (though a climb speed is useful in a multitude of situations).
Dread Commando (Heroes of Battle) lets you use heavier armor better and gives you Sudden Strike, an init boost, and great stealth power. Heroes of Battle also contains the Guerilla Scout and Guerilla Warrior feats.
The last thing you'll want is Swift Hunter from Complete Scoundrel, which stacks your Ranger and Scout levels for Skirmish and Favored Enemy.
If your DM will let you get away with it, one level of Lion Totem Barbarian (alternate class feature from Complete Champion) will give you pounce, which will let you full-attack skirmish and get your sudden strike (from Dread Commando) if you manage to pounce on someone who's flat-footed.
Greater Manyshot specifies that it applies. General rule is, you can sneak attack once per attack roll.Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2010-06-17 at 12:48 PM.
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2010-06-17, 12:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
It's a great race for rogues, but I wouldn't declare it the best. There are a few others who can put up a fight, such as Strongheart halflings and of course kobolds.Yes, you only get one Sneak Attack, ever, so better make it count since it's major class feature. Perhaps save it for the BBEG? /sarcasm
"The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."
Any time. Any attack action.
Oh, and hey: "Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet."
Does this mean you only get multiple Sneak Attacks with ranged attacks?Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-06-17, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
About the Sneak Attack debate: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040217a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040302a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a
Particularly relevant:
Number of Sneak Attacks
Provided it is possible for you to make a sneak attack at all, you can make multiple sneak attacks when you use the full attack action. For example, if you have a higher initiative result at the beginning of an encounter, your foe is flat-footed and every attack you make is a sneak attack. The same is true if you flank your foe.
Anything that allows you to make extra attacks during the full attack action gets you extra sneak attacks as well: fighting with two weapons, the haste spell, and the monk's flurry of blows are the most common ways of getting extra attacks.
Remember the earlier note about invisibility effects, however. If you're relying on invisibility to set up a sneak attack, you'll only have the effect for the first attack you make during your turn. You'll still get all your extra attacks, but only the first will be a sneak attack. You don't have this problem if you're using a greater invisibility effect.Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2010-06-17 at 01:01 PM.
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2010-06-17, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Scout build:
SpoilerI Am A: Lawful Good Human Ranger (3rd Level)Ability ScoresStrength: 15Dexterity: 18Constitution: 16Intelligence: 16Wisdom: 16Charisma: 14Find yours here: http://www.easydamus.com/character.html