Crunchy effects of pregnancy?

[Morph Bark]

As in, besides knocked-up-ness.

At least I figured it'd fit better here than the Homebrew forum...

Anyhoo, after a thread from not too long ago discussed expanding the age categories to include children and infants, and then re-reading some older OotS comics (stumbled again upon this one) I got to wondering... what exactly would the mechanical penalties and bonuses (if any) be with regards to pregnancy in DnD? Or d20 in general for that matter?

[Snake-Aes]

A good start would be encumbrance and a few situations that can risk abortion...namely, physical stress (run, encumbrance caused by stuff other than the fetus) and anything that makes you roll Fort entitles a second roll of the same dc to keep it from dieing.

[Amphetryon]

The word you want is 'miscarriage'.

[Ormagoden]

Is it just me or when reading the title of this thread you think of something entirely different?

[Ashiel]

As in, besides knocked-up-ness.

At least I figured it'd fit better here than the Homebrew forum...

Anyhoo, after a thread from not too long ago discussed expanding the age categories to include children and infants, and then re-reading some older OotS comics (stumbled again upon this one) I got to wondering... what exactly would the mechanical penalties and bonuses (if any) be with regards to pregnancy in DnD? Or d20 in general for that matter?

This is a can of worms. You see, there are so many different opinions as to what the effects should be that it becomes excessively difficult to fish through all of them. You have "realism" individuals who would oppose a -2 penalty to a woman's strength "cause they lave less body mass", and would eat a character alive with penalties for being pregnant (right down to having them have difficulties concentrating or preparing spells due to poor sleep or morning sickness).

Then you have the side who's all high-fantasy, and ready to let the high-level mother ****-kick the crap out of balors with a baby in one hand a warhammer in the other.

Then you got people kind of like me who's kind of in the middle. I'd prefer to let them keep adventuring with no penalties right up until the wee months of their pregnancy, and then give the adventurers some down-time; or if its one of those world shattering things where the party just has to go do some 'venturing, then set up contingencies of some sort. Most major complications from injury could probably be fixed with liberal applications of cure, restoration, heal, and (heaven forbid) raise dead or resurrection.

But far too many people will try to make this out to be a huge punishment, rather than a great role-playing option (no, expressly choosing to sit out of the fun and action isn't a good role-playing choice; it's a boring one); which is why I'd recommend some downtime and maybe a opportunity to fast-forward a few months at a time.

It'd be a great time to work on other social things, like the founding or improvement of guilds; crafting magic items, or taking a vacation. If this sort of thing isn't for your group (preferring more action, or less fast-forward time), perhaps pregnancy scenarios aren't for your group.

Unless you're just trying to stat out an NPC. In that case, just stat 'em out to be about as effective as you see them being.

[Eloi]

You can start here:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pregnancy_(3.5e_Disease)

Its the only crunch I've seen made for that, honestly.

[Ernir]

The Book of Erotic Fantasy has rules on this.

[Chen]

The least game breaking (for the player if thats the case) would just be extra encumbrance. Considering HP is an abstraction anyways I'd say the risk of the fetus dying/being damaged should only occur if you get knocked to 0 or below. Otherwise the damage taken is assumed to be taken elsewhere and healing would affect both mother and child.

[Mr.Moron]

None. Unless your entire group has made it very clear they want it a specific way, and they all agree 100% on what that is. Even then it's probably not a good idea to stat out.

[--Lime--]

Crunch should reflect roleplay. There are several heroines from history that come to mind that embody the whole "baby in one hand, battleaxe in the other". But the thing is, if the pregnant character is there to add an aspect of "protect the VIP" into the group, stat it that way. If it's to flesh out RP, maybe bonus on diplo checks or somesuch because people give up their seats, ladies go "aww... when's it due? Boy or girl?" and generally, people always try to help out pregnant ladies. The crunch should fit the purpose of what your group want in the game. There's no right answer - hell, if you want to give her barbarian's rage for getting hormonal, there isn't a rule says you can't.

[The Glyphstone]

The Book of Erotic Fantasy has rules on this.

I was going to suggest the BoEF too. Someone on the boards recently said it has two categories of content - 1) well-written and mature, and 2) relevant to the game.

These two never overlap, but the pregnancy rules fit firmly into the first category. On the other hand, they're fairly minor - it divides the pregnancy into three trimesters, with increasing movement penalties and Dexterity penalties through the second and third, and a small Strength penalty during the third.

[Caliphbubba]

Every pregnancy is so different it's hard to come up with any general guidelines. Some women work and act no different than any other time in their lives right up until the very end. Other women are on bed rest for a long period of time. Other women get sick early on, and feel better as the pregnancy progresses.

Maybe fortitude rolls every day to see how it goes. This would represent that healthier, hardier womenfolk have less trouble than more frail ones. Then with a sliding scale depending on degree of success or failure of the check.


I'd probably do as other have suggested and do away with the whole penalty thing right until the end, and then give them some down time until after the birth.

Adventurers get maternity leave too!
*shrug*

[Eloi]

I do wonder, what kind of person would go out on treacherous terrain and fight monsters and endanger a baby's life like that? Seems kinda (very) reckless to me. Why not just say "Months later..." and have the baby be born, that way you wouldn't have to stat out pregnancy?

[electricbee]

I'd personally so NO mechanical penalties.

We don't have separate racial male and female ablitiy score limits anymore for a reason, and this is a mechanical penalties for a female only condition is a throwback to less enlightened times.

[Eloi]

I'd personally so NO mechanical penalties.

We don't have separate racial male and female ablitiy score limits anymore for a reason, and this is a mechanical penalties for a female only condition is a throwback to less enlightened times.

So these are the times where women don't get pregnant and if they do its not physically taxing?

[Caliphbubba]

I do wonder, what kind of person would go out on treacherous terrain and fight monsters and endanger a baby's life like that? Seems kinda (very) reckless to me. Why not just say "Months later..." and have the baby be born, that way you wouldn't have to stat out pregnancy?

The Chaotic kind? chaotic and reckless often go hand in hand. not always, mind you, but it sure could go that way.

also, the >end of the world< scenario could be time sensative. Pretty compelling reason there. Risk the baby to save >blank<.

[The Glyphstone]

I'd personally so NO mechanical penalties.

We don't have separate racial male and female ablitiy score limits anymore for a reason, and this is a mechanical penalties for a female only condition is a throwback to less enlightened times.

We're discussing a fantasy universe here...why would it be a female only condition?

[dob]

I call bull**** on DEX and movement penalties in the first two trimesters. I refer you to the amazing story of Christie Rampone, professional women's soccer player.

I grant you she is exceptional, but what are D&D player characters but exceptional?

[DragoonWraith]

Heh, for a character I'm playing (who is male, but I felt the need to flesh out the culture he came from), I had a culture where the female hunters take a "wife" and male lover(s), and the wife is impregnated by the lovers because the hunters don't ever want to deal with pregnancy. The culture believed quite strongly that the child was that of the hunter and her wife, not the lover. It was about the only solution I could think of to the issue of a very physically active and dangerous profession being equally available to men and women; pregnancy is just too often debilitating for too long to be acceptable in an adventurer lifestyle, I'd think. Basically, as Eloi said, to go out on an adventure while pregnant seems dangerous, reckless, and irresponsible (sometimes life does force one to behave dangerously, recklessly, and irresponsibly, but you couldn't make a culture out of people who do that on a regular basis).

Of course, this culture was also extremely primitive, being hunter-gatherers hunters, with a small population, etc. Couldn't afford to have some of their best not 'fathering' children, so... weirdness.

[Master_Rahl22]

Just... don't. That way lies FATAL, and you don't even want to go there. If it's impossible to simply say "Nine months later..." then I like the slightly extra encumbrance idea. Don't try to get any more detailed than that.

[The Glyphstone]

I call bull**** on DEX and movement penalties in the first two trimesters. I refer you to the amazing story of Christie Rampone, professional women's soccer player.

I grant you she is exceptional, but what are D&D player characters but exceptional?

Second two trimesters, actually (the first is penalty-free), but that is a good point (and a fairly cool story).

[Morph Bark]

First off, let me say that this is not for something in-game. I don't plan on getting a character of mine knocked up or see any other PCs have that be done to them or do it unto others. This was merely founded from curiosity.

That link to Dandwiki that Eloi gave is somewhat helpful, but birth in 9 rounds? That's crazy. I was born in two and a half hours and that was fast. The Str damage is also rather high and frequent...

...admittably I also own a copy of BoEF (even more awkward that my mother got it for me without knowing what it was, alongside tons of other books), but I didn't bother to check it. Whoops? Oh well, at least a fair discussion sprouted from this.

[Eloi]

First off, let me say that this is not for something in-game. I don't plan on getting a character of mine knocked up or see any other PCs have that be done to them or do it unto others. This was merely founded from curiosity.

That link to Dandwiki that Eloi gave is somewhat helpful, but birth in 9 rounds? That's crazy. I was born in two and a half hours and that was fast. The Str damage is also rather high and frequent...

...admittably I also own a copy of BoEF (even more awkward that my mother got it for me without knowing what it was, alongside tons of other books), but I didn't bother to check it. Whoops? Oh well, at least a fair discussion sprouted from this.

Well my clone, I also had the book and forgot to check even after it was mentioned.

[Another_Poet]

If you are going to add rules for pregnancy I would also add a 1st level Cleric spell, "Ease Pregnancy", duration 1 day, Fort save negates (harmless), effect: experience no ill side effects of pregnancy (does not preclude complications with the actual birthing process).

Then your adventurers can be preggo and not worry about nausea penalties or encumbrance.

ap

[WarKitty]

I do wonder, what kind of person would go out on treacherous terrain and fight monsters and endanger a baby's life like that? Seems kinda (very) reckless to me. Why not just say "Months later..." and have the baby be born, that way you wouldn't have to stat out pregnancy?

Depends on the DM. I have a tendency to run campaigns where you might not be getting the option to go rest for a few months. E.g. the "you've been kidnapped by a demon who demands you get something for him" type.

In other ideas, maybe some sort of bonus to spells or something? There's certainly fantasy literature precedent for the extra "soul" adding a bit of it's strength to the spellcaster.

[Eloi]

Depends on the DM. I have a tendency to run campaigns where you might not be getting the option to go rest for a few months. E.g. the "you've been kidnapped by a demon who demands you get something for him" type.

If you're characters don't have enough time to rest for the duration of a pregnancy, they don't have enough time to cause a pregnancy, in my opinion.

[WarKitty]

If you're characters don't have enough time to rest for the duration of a pregnancy, they don't have enough time to cause a pregnancy, in my opinion.

(1) You don't know my characters, they would find time. Although we did houserule in potions of birth control.

(2) There's no reason to assume the conception happened during the campaign.

[Morph Bark]

Heh, for a character I'm playing (who is male, but I felt the need to flesh out the culture he came from), I had a culture where the female hunters take a "wife" and male lover(s), and the wife is impregnated by the lovers because the hunters don't ever want to deal with pregnancy. The culture believed quite strongly that the child was that of the hunter and her wife, not the lover. It was about the only solution I could think of to the issue of a very physically active and dangerous profession being equally available to men and women; pregnancy is just too often debilitating for too long to be acceptable in an adventurer lifestyle, I'd think. Basically, as Eloi said, to go out on an adventure while pregnant seems dangerous, reckless, and irresponsible (sometimes life does force one to behave dangerously, recklessly, and irresponsibly, but you couldn't make a culture out of people who do that on a regular basis).

Of course, this culture was also extremely primitive, being hunter-gatherers hunters, with a small population, etc. Couldn't afford to have some of their best not 'fathering' children, so... weirdness.

Consider this idea snagged and altered to fit my purposes. (I'll leave a thank you note in the credits of the campaign.)

Well my clone, I also had the book and forgot to check even after it was mentioned.

We all have our vices.

If you are going to add rules for pregnancy I would also add a 1st level Cleric spell, "Ease Pregnancy", duration 1 day, Fort save negates (harmless), effect: experience no ill side effects of pregnancy (does not preclude complications with the actual birthing process).

Then your adventurers can be preggo and not worry about nausea penalties or encumbrance.

ap

They'd still have to worry about miscarriage, likely...

Personally, I wouldn't have a female adventurer (PC or NPC) get preggo if she was the dungeoncrashing type rather than the city-based or court-based type, not without timeskipping or a change in how the campaign would go. For NPCs though? Fair game, perhaps a rival moderately Lawful Evil party's main girl who is very much obsessed with winning got knocked up by leader dearest and restrained from adventuring for a while. What's that I hear? Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned? Oh hell yes, let the roleplaying drama begin.

[Another_Poet]

They'd still have to worry about miscarriage, likely...

Not during the 9 months of pregnancy if they're using Ease Pregnancy every day. A higher-level spell, Deliver Baby, (Clr3, duration 1 hour/level) would be employed to protect the child and mother during labor.

[WarKitty]

Not during the 9 months of pregnancy if they're using Ease Pregnancy every day. A higher-level spell, Deliver Baby, (Clr3, duration 1 hour/level) would be employed to protect the child and mother during labor.

I believe I read somewhere about a plan for an NPC-type druid that would be closer to the type found in a small farming community. I think spells to aid pregnancy were on the list.