Better Sneaky Class [3.5]

[OMG PONIES]

Hello all:

I'm embarking on a new character, and he's going to be a sneaky warlock. However, I'm unsure to play him as a Rogue 1/Warlock 2 or a Scout 1/Warlock 2. Usually, I would just use rogue, but I am thinking of taking Martial Study and Martial Stance to get Child of Shadow. Because of this, I will need to be moving as much as possible. Does this make scout a better choice?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Scout is a better choice than rogue for a ranged warlock because for skirmish you just need to move whereas for sneak attack your opponent has to lose Dex to AC or be flanked, and you can't flank at range and it can be hard to make your opponents lose Dex to AC.

[Human Paragon 3]

Since you're already dipping into tome of battle for feats, why don't you just take Swordsage? They get hide as a class skill.

[HunterOfJello]

Scout is as good as a Rogue.


Don't forget about the Factotum, Swordsage and Beguiler as very effective sneaky classes.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I say anyone of those classes but be sure to that feat from drow of the underdark that lets you hide in your own darkness (invocation) as a swift action, free hide in plain sight at level 1 (or 3)

[OMG PONIES]

Thanks for the feedback, I'm now contemplating running him as a Scout 1/Warlock 1/Swordsage 1 for precisely the reasons mentioned. I was looking at the DotU feat (Blend with Shadows, I think), but I might be better off without it. If I take Child of Shadow as my stance, it gives me concealment whenever I move, right? That allows me to make Hide checks, right?

I know it's not as good as HiPS, but I don't like having darkness as my only invocation. With that being said, what SHOULD I use? Eldritch Spear seems best for combat, but are there any better for sneaking? I like the ability to spiderclimb, but can't I get Slippers of Spiderclimbing for that?

[Greenish]

If I take Child of Shadow as my stance, it gives me concealment whenever I move, right?

Whenever you move for 10' or more, yes.

That allows me to make Hide checks, right?

No, the stance specifically says you can't use it's concealment for hiding.

[OMG PONIES]

Oh.

Well then, should I really consider darkness as my sole invocation? It would probably work well, since I'm playing a whisper gnome w/ darkvision. Also, am I going to need to waste feats on Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot for use on my Eldritch Blast?

[gallagher]

Scout is a better choice than rogue for a ranged warlock because for skirmish you just need to move whereas for sneak attack your opponent has to lose Dex to AC or be flanked, and you can't flank at range and it can be hard to make your opponents lose Dex to AC.

Eldritch blast is a touch attack... doesnt sneak attack go off for touch attacks? i dont know if it was a feat or just misinformed teammates, but i had a teammate who played a rogue 1 sorceror X and used mostly touch attacks to gain the extra sneak attack die

[Greenish]

It would probably work well, since I'm playing a whisper gnome w/ darkvision.

Darkvision doesn't help against magical darkness (such as that from the invocation).

Also, am I going to need to waste feats on Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot for use on my Eldritch Blast?

If you're having hard time on hitting things, but you're using touch attacks with mostly medium BAB classes so that shouldn't be so hard.

Eldritch blast is a touch attack... doesnt sneak attack go off for touch attacks?

Yes, if it has an attack roll you can Sneak Attack with it.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Eldritch blast is a touch attack... doesnt sneak attack go off for touch attacks? i dont know if it was a feat or just misinformed teammates, but i had a teammate who played a rogue 1 sorceror X and used mostly touch attacks to gain the extra sneak attack die

You can sneak attack with touch attacks, but you still must fulfill the requirement of a flanked opponent or one who has lost Dex to AC. You don't get to add SA dice just because you're making a touch attack.

[OMG PONIES]

Darkvision doesn't help against magical darkness (such as that from the invocation).

Grr, you and your actually remembering the rules for such things. I'll have to check out DotU to see if it's worthwhile. Any other least invocations besides Spider Climb worth checking out?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Grr, you and your actually remembering the rules for such things. I'll have to check out DotU to see if it's worthwhile. Any other least invocations besides Spider Climb worth checking out?

Well, devil's sight lets you see through magical darkness, which seems to be exactly what you're looking for.

[Il_Vec]

Are you using fractional BAB or will you really have + 0 BAB?

[Fax Celestis]

Well, devil's sight lets you see through magical darkness, which seems to be exactly what you're looking for.

So does ebon eyes from SC.

[Lycanthromancer]

I'm currently using a swordsage 1/factotum 3/swordsage 1, and it's great. I get Int to damn near everything, and plenty of other bonuses out the wazoo. I just need to see if I can squeeze out 160 gp or so for an additional +5 to initiative (go go warning shuriken!).

[Hallavast]

IIRC, Scouts don't get UMD as a class skill. Rogues do, however, and it meshes well with warlock abililties.

[OMG PONIES]

Thanks for the suggestions. We're using fractional BAB, and I think I'm sticking w/ rogue for UMD and other such goodies. I'm trying to see if I can sneak in a level of swordsage at some point later on.

[RandomAction]

Here is my 2cp:

If your are focusing on just using Eldritch Blast, then I would go Scout. True it does lack UMD as a class skill, but doesn't warlock get it as class skill? I saw a mention earlier about the Child of Shadow stance. Scout works wonders with this, since both require movement to gain each's abilities. With the warlock's blast, I would consider going for shot-on-the-run feat. This will help keep you mobile while dishing out damage.

[Person_Man]

You might want to consider Binder 1/Warlock 2.

Binder 1 is all you need to Bind Naberius, which grants you at will supernatural Disguise Self, Command at will once every 5 rounds, large buffs to Diplomacy and Bluff, and the ability to heal ability damage every round (which is a must have for drug abuse or Hellfire Warlock).

So instead of using Hide and Move Silently, you walk around in disguise continuously, and just walk up to your enemies and bluff them. Also, if your Int is decent you can invest in Hide and Move Silently cross class without a big penalty to your checks. Or you can take more Binder to get access to continuous Invisibility, buffs to Hide and Move Silently, Death Attack, etc.