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2010-06-17, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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[3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
The wording on this is hilariously vague.
Here's the tower shield rules:
Originally Posted by SRD
Originally Posted by SRD
These rules are pretty vague. I'd like other people's views on them.
My own interpretation of them, while not totally RAW, has been this:
Covering a direction with a tower shield is a free action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Instead of granting a shield bonus to AC, your tower shield until your next turn instead acts as a wall that grants total cover that stretches from any two corners of your square. (Note that attacks of opportunity cannot be made through total cover, although adjacent enemies can simply five-foot-step around your cover and attack next turn.)
You may not use the attack action in the same turn you cover a direction with a tower shield, although you may drink a potion, use a wand, draw a weapon, manipulate an object (that you haven't blocked access to, of course), and engage in similarly non-physically-stressful actions.
Example: You are standing at the center of 3 hobgoblins to form a T-shape. The two hobgoblins at the top of the T are adjacent to you - the one at the bottom is at ten tiles away, with a bow.
You declare that you'll use your shield as total cover from the top left corner of your square to the bottom right corner. You provoke an AoO from either hobgoblin, one of which (the left hobgoblin) is negated by total cover. You now have total cover from the left hobgoblin and the bottom hobgoblin. However, you do not have cover from the right hobgoblin, and you don't even have a shield bonus to AC against him.
Note that on the hobgoblin's turn, the left hobgoblin could simply 5-foot step to directly above you and attack around your cover. The bottom hobgoblin could move some distance to the right and get line of effect to the top right corner of your square, thus allowing him to attack you - however, you would probably still have a +4 AC bonus against him for cover, as drawing a line of effect to either the bottom left or right corner would be interrupted by the full cover you threw down.Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put tomato in fruit salad. Charisma is convincing someone it's a good idea anyways.
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2010-06-17, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Do you want an FAQ answer?
I read it. Taking Total Cover is a standard action. 1 side of your square is now considered a wall/etc and provides cover as if a wall.
No mention of provoking AoO.
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2010-06-17, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Total Cover from a shield is pretty much hiding behind it, which means on that direction you have a wall. Since fighting of any sort requires some movement, it makes sense you blow your cover if you stand up to attack(you go back to partial cover). It doesn't have to provoke attacks of opportunity, but I'm not sure how to figure out your ac from positions against which you do not have cover.
Total Cover is not practical in melee at all...it's more of a "wait, I've got this...where's that damn potion?" action when you're pinned down by archers.Last edited by Snake-Aes; 2010-06-17 at 09:54 AM.
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2010-06-17, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
As I pointed out in another thread, and suggested above, there is a laundry list long FAQ answer that is just good.
I the standard action thing became official, even Pathfinder uses it.
Moreover, the standard action cover increases tactical flexibility - I recommend it.
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2010-06-17, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
I usually just consider it to be equivalent to taking a total defence (if I recall the name correctly) action. Whilst it makes sense in a sort of D20/3e way for it to act as total cover in all directions (after all shields work in all directions) it is probably more sensible to consider it to be providing cover towards one direction.
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2010-06-17, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Firstly: is this an official errata/FAQ, or yet another Sage ruling that may or not make sense? Can you give a link, if one exists?
Secondly, I argue that standard action cover prevents you from accomplishing anything. Say I want to hide behind my shield from the archers on the wall while I drink potions/buff with a wand/use a healing belt/whatever that isn't attacking. Standard action cover means all I can do is sit on my butt. Oh, and move around, but that's not exactly helping the situation.
Yes, total-cover shielding is completely pointless in melee, which I tried to point out in the example.
Oh, and add in the clause that you cannot make an attack on the same turn that you set up total cover. That means no "I throw my javelin and then hide with impunity".Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put tomato in fruit salad. Charisma is convincing someone it's a good idea anyways.
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Tainted Bonds, a newly-created Touhou x D&D 3.5 CYOA. Just read these before posting anywhere. Talk about it here.
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2010-06-17, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a
v.3.5 Main D&D FAQ pg 70. However, it is said FAQ =/= RAW
Using the standard action pretty much makes you useless the round you do it. (Unless you use it to move away) And they can go move sideways and deny your cover. Probably the only good use is in tight corridors, and you want to wait for some reason (Lesser Vigor for example, or waiting out their buffs)Last edited by 2xMachina; 2010-06-17 at 10:47 AM.
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2010-06-17, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
We always rule it to be unidirectional cover. You choose which way you're planting it and have cover against that direction.
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2010-06-17, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
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2010-06-17, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
As you said, it's vague. Too vague, really, for RAW to be of any use other than "lol tower shield of invisibility".
I've always used the standard action route, and you choose a 180 degree arc to have total cover from.My forum avatars appear to have decomposed in my absence. C'est la vie.Homebrewer's Signature
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2010-06-17, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Dragon moves to the side and breathes on you.
Troll side steps and attack you where your shield doesn't provide total cover. (Partial cover). No AoO, cause he's moving out of an area where he has Total cover from you. Or he can move to your sides, eating a AoO with cover, and hitting you with none.
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2010-06-17, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
I said ACTION PREPARED. You can prepare standard actions.
So I'm forcing the troll moving? Stepping in some greased area, or a rogue is ready to come out from darkness/tree/whatever, and I'm flanking him, maybe?
I'm forcing the targets focusing the fighter instead of say, the bard? Bad move.
Towershield is for tactics. If one does not like it, just take the exotic shield proficeency AFC from races of stone. Done.
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2010-06-17, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Ah, ok. Was confused. They generally call it readying an action.
Though... IDK. It's generally like the tank problem. No reason for them not to just ignore you.
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2010-06-17, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Another good way to bust cover is a trip/bull rush. Or even disarm, if you want to nab the shield and toss it aside.
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2010-06-17, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Sunder works well too, since the standard Tower Shield is made of wood.
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2010-06-17, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Have patience. I generally succeed in translations, but sometimes I make a mistake on the fly (sadly, more in core, because mine is in Italian).
True, but in Races of Stone there is an Adamantine one. If can be made on Adamantine, can be made of Obdurium. Base hardness 30 can be useful!
Yes you can bull rushed, but you can bull rush too (not during cover). Look up in wotc archives (fighting dirty). There is a suggested house rule to use a towershield in helping you bull rush (+4 to the attempt, not bad!).
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2010-06-17, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
I don't know - every standard action you take to provide cover is a standard action not spent killing the enemy.
And that's terrible.
I mean the example of readying a shield to provide total cover against an attack solves absolutely nothing - the dragon is still going to breathe on you next turn, the troll will still be standing there next turn, etc.
As long as it's a standard action to put up the shield, it will never provide "tactical options" because bad options are no options.
Call me arrogant, but I really believe just throwing down a wall for a free action is the most enjoyable and interesting way to handle tower shields.
And who says that this is limited to PCs? I'd love to see an encounter where mooks constantly prepare actions to move in front of charging/arrow shooting/spellcasting PCs with total-cover tower shields, completely negating their actions. It'd be a refreshing change from the mooks that simply stand there and do nothing. As a standard action, a mook can only prepare an action to move in the way, which may or may not accomplish anything - as a free action, the mook can do so with his shield still up.Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put tomato in fruit salad. Charisma is convincing someone it's a good idea anyways.
I am a 12/13/13/17/15/17 True Neutral Sorcerer2.
Tainted Bonds, a newly-created Touhou x D&D 3.5 CYOA. Just read these before posting anywhere. Talk about it here.
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2010-06-17, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
The dragon breath weapon recharges int the following round? I already bringed in an example about the troll.
A player of mine used these tactics. To lure a dragon to breath in a well planned counter-attack after a deep dragon was stalking the party. To approach an heavy templated mountain troll that was dropping the ceiling launching rocks.
I don't say you have to use it always. Heck, the warrior above use THF generally. But when chance arrives, can be great.
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2010-06-17, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Dragons can only breathe every 1d4 rounds, so it protects you from damage letting you live long enough to fight for those extra rounds.
Not to mention that the round that you use the cover to protect yourself from the attack (the monster would still attack you, and the cover would then negate it, because it wouldn't know you were readying the action) is an attack not dealing damage, not targeted to more squishy party members, and an extra round to get into tactical positions.It's been a bit, GitP. If you're reading this, you're either digging through old stuff, or I've posted for the first time in forever.
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2010-06-17, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
I've seen it used well. The PCs came through a narrow hallway into a huge room. At the other side was an archer in a fixed, fortified position with Rapid Shot. In between was difficult terrain. The fighter used the tower shield as cover and led the way, with everyone else following single file close behind. They crossed the room impervious to arrow fire, stormed the fortified foxhole, and captured the archer and his brother.
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2010-06-17, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-06-17, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
I've seen a fighter use a tower shield to good effect when fighting inside a building. He had goblins coming at him from through a door and also from down some stairs. So he'd just use his tower shield to block off one or the other - this was 3.0 though so the rules were slightly different.
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2010-06-18, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
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2010-06-18, 02:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
I've actually played with the "Omnidirectional no-action required" total cover option, with only the caveat that they have to declare on their turn which mode their tower shield is in. It wasn't that bad.
The Cleric ran around the battlefield and was essentially a mobile +2 bonus from flanking. His contributions to the fight weren't any better than a healbot, as I still let him cast touch spells with it up. For one feat, all it did was make sure that damage went to the meatshield.
On a fighter, who gets Tower Shield proficiency naturally, it would have been even worse. Sure, he can't die, but that doesn't mean much when you're the meatshield and just made yourself completely ignorable.
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2010-06-18, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
It takes a standard action to set it up. What action does it cost to take it down?
Or is it actually a standard action each turn? Because wings of cover then has you owned to the point that you might as well roll a meatshield sorcerer.
If it's a just a standard to set up then you can just chug that potion next round and be save as you hide behind your mobile wall.
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2010-06-18, 06:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
According to FAQ? Standard action each round. It also goes on to say you can move with it, but it might not provide you cover while doing so...
So, yeah... They nerfed it pretty bad.
Or you can ignore the FAQ, and just say you can do anything with the Tower Shield up, provided you don't attack or do any offensive action.
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2010-06-18, 07:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
Luckily, it's just FAQ.
The non-nerfed version is restrictive enough. I think standard action/round for omnidirectional total cover is a fair trade.
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2010-06-18, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Total Cover and Tower Shields
I don't get it... You give a flanking bonus if you can flank. You can flank if you threaten a square. You threaten a square which you can attack. You can't attack if the target has total cover from you, which it has, since there is a tower shield between you. Am I missing something?
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2010-06-18, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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