Chainfighting?

[gallagher]

so what are ways to fight with just regular chains? not a spiked or scorpion chain, i mean like 15 foot chains that were once intended to keep you in place, and are still attached to your wrists?

is there a weapon already like that? (i dont own alot of splatbooks)

or if there is no real rules for that, what are ways besides drunken master to get improvised weapons? and what would you have the damage die and crit range for them be?

[Zaq]

What's the objection to refluffing a spiked chain, exactly?

[Snake-Aes]

Yeah they feel like improvised spiked chains. Give it the feats, the penalty and a reduced dice and you're fine.

[gallagher]

What's the objection to refluffing a spiked chain, exactly?

not really a problem, i was just curious if there was already something like it.

also, since i want it to have the reach of a whip, which is 15 ft for a medium character, how much reach would you speculate it to be for a large Half Minotaur Water Orc

EDIT: for those who are curious, this is for a barbarian, who will be spending feats on stone dragon maneuvers i think. are there any good ToB PRCs for Barbs? my friend has the book with him, so i cant access it ATM

[arguskos]

not really a problem, i was just curious if there was already something like it.

also, since i want it to have the reach of a whip, which is 15 ft for a medium character, how much reach would you speculate it to be for a large Half Minotaur Water Orc

15 ft, plus the natural reach of the character? Large-sized weapons don't actually have more reach you know.

[gallagher]

15 ft, plus the natural reach of the character? Large-sized weapons don't actually have more reach you know.

i know, but since reach weapons double the natural range of the character, and a large character has 10ft reach, a normal reach weapon puts that to 20 feet. but a whip triples that reach for a medium character, i was wondering if it actually does triple, or if it in fact is reach*2.5 instead

[Flickerdart]

i know, but since reach weapons double the natural range of the character, and a large character has 10ft reach, a normal reach weapon puts that to 20 feet. but a whip triples that reach for a medium character, i was wondering if it actually does triple, or if it in fact is reach*2.5 instead

Reach weapons don't double anything. They have 10ft reach. Whips have 15ft reach.

[Krazddndfreek]

Reach weapons don't double anything. They have 10ft reach. Whips have 15ft reach.

You're sorta wrong

Reach Weapons
Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

It looks like the whip is simply an exception to this rule. I don't know how it works with large or larger creatures, though.

But, looking at monster entries of larger creatures who have reach weapons, we can see that reach weapons double their reach.

EDIT: Hmm... that's not really a good example.

[gallagher]

You're sorta wrong


It looks like the whip is simply an exception to this rule. I don't know how it works with large or larger creatures, though.

But, looking at monster entries of larger creatures who have reach weapons, we can see that reach weapons double their reach.

EDIT: Hmm... that's not really a good example.

well, how would you feel that a large whip would be length wise? is it fair to make it x3? while i feel like x2.5 is fair, it is also interesting how it would effect a large Pyromancer, who actually threatens squares with the flame whip

[ShneekeyTheLost]

well, how would you feel that a large whip would be length wise? is it fair to make it x3? while i feel like x2.5 is fair, it is also interesting how it would effect a large Pyromancer, who actually threatens squares with the flame whip

Flame Lash is a Psi-Like Ability, and the effect does not increase in size with respect to the size of the wielder.

[gallagher]

Flame Lash is a Psi-Like Ability, and the effect does not increase in size with respect to the size of the wielder.

huh, i didnt know that. that is very interesting though, as it makes it less useful as you get larger to be one. while hitting on touch AC is nice, grabbing them and throwing them in the air is much more efficient :)

[The Glyphstone]

The whip is a weird weapon in more ways than one, both for its superreach and the fact that it doesn't threaten.

[Thurbane]

I'd call a manacle chain ripped from a wall, and still attached to your wrist, an improvised flail myself. Benefits of locked gauntlet, since it's going to be very hard to disarm.

[prufock]

There's the manriki-gusari, but it only has 10' reach.

But as is, I'd just make it an improvised weapon, -4 to hit, 1d6 or 1d8 damage, 15 ft reach.

[Snake-Aes]

I'd call a manacle chain ripped from a wall, and still attached to your wrist, an improvised flail myself. Benefits of locked gauntlet, since it's going to be very hard to disarm.

Only if the chain itself is very short. The main difference between a combat chain and a light flail is that the chain has more chain. Both have a weighted end.

Regardless... Look at chain weapons, pick whatever looks the closest to what you have, turn it improvised.

[Escheton]

Initiating maneuvers with 15ft reach is overpowered in most campaigns.
Check with the dm if it is in this one.
The damage doesnt matter, that will come from your class anyways.
Be it from massive strenght or maneuvers.
Consider keeping it 10ft and basically just modding the spiked chain to bludgeoning.

[Greenish]

Initiating maneuvers with 15ft reach is overpowered in most campaigns.

Dancing Blade Form + a longspear is overpowered?

Anyway, a large creature wielding an appropriately sized (spiked) chain would have 20 feet reach.

[9mm]

Justicars count masterwork manticales as flails, in case you care about current pressedent; though simply calling what your describing as a spiked chain with locked gaughtlets makes alot of sense too.

[Escheton]

Dancing Blade Form + a longspear is overpowered?

Anyway, a large creature wielding an appropriately sized (spiked) chain would have 20 feet reach.

Naturally you pick the maneuver that enhances reach slightly on an otherwise normal attack.

Now, a barbarian with feats is far less dangerous then a straight warblade when they have 15ft reach. But there is a reason people want high reach, because it's powerfull and very usefull. So just make sure that it goes with the rest of the group, or that you don't step on the tripper's toes or whatnot.

[gallagher]

Would it be reasonable to make it similar to a dire flail with 10 ft reach, with the trip bonuses of the spiked chain?

Chainfigting has always intrigued me, I hav even practiced using them in such a manner (I already know how to use a three section staff well, so I do it like that) but he phb's spiked chain just annoys me

[Greenish]

Naturally you pick the maneuver that enhances reach slightly on an otherwise normal attack.

Dancing Blade Form is a stance. You can have it active and use whatever maneuver you wish.

[Edit]:

Would it be reasonable to make it similar to a dire flail with 10 ft reach, with the trip bonuses of the spiked chain?

Dire Flail is, if possible, even sillier weapon than the spiked chain. Also, as a large creature you have 10' reach.

[Knaight]

A manacle, particularly one not being worn (as is the case with the Justicular) is a completely different concept than a chain that bound a limb to a surface, which is what we are talking about here (probably), so that is largely irrelevant.

[balistafreak]

[Edit]:Dire Flail is, if possible, even sillier weapon than the spiked chain. Also, as a large creature you have 10' reach.

I see your Dire Flail and raise you one Dire Badger. That is a far sillier weapon than the flail.

EDIT: Dire Dire Badgers.

[gallagher]

Dancing Blade Form is a stance. You can have it active and use whatever maneuver you wish.

[Edit]:Dire Flail is, if possible, even sillier weapon than the spiked chain. Also, as a large creature you have 10' reach.

I meant dire flail with reach

[Kaiyanwang]

Dancing Blade Form + a longspear is overpowered?

Anyway, a large creature wielding an appropriately sized (spiked) chain would have 20 feet reach.

Even an expanded psywarrior. Or a MMI duergar. Or a PH fighter with the wiz casting enlarge person on him..