3.5 Duskblade Helps!!

[Shadwen]

Hi, im going to attempt to bring this about. So far im feeling human or dwarf. I think its going to be alot of caving so the darkvision will help, along with the bonus to con and -cha (which is a dumpstat). Now for the basic setup im having difficulty selecting a weapon. I feel like I need to stick to reach or the dwarven waraxe. Please cast your vote on weapon.


Weapons:

Whip

Spiked Chain

Dwarven Waraxe.


Im going to be going the arcane strike method. You have up to level 20 to work with. Please do a step by step setup so I know what to work towards and when. Thank you all in advance, and any advice or help will be rather helpful.

[PId6]

Choose Spiked Chain.

With channeling on full attacks, you want as high a reach as possible so you can hit as many enemies as you can after the current one is killed. You also gain the option of tripping enemies, which is never too bad an idea.

Since Duskblade doesn't really give too much after 13th level, consider PrCing out to Abjurant Champion. Through a single feat (Arcane Preparation), you gain access to Luminous Armor and Greater Luminous Armor, which can raise your AC through the roof when combined with Abjurant Champion.

[Shadwen]

If I use a trip attack and channel my weapon, the the damage of the channeled spell still take effect?
Also that sounds like a pretty good idea.

[PId6]

If I use a trip attack and channel my weapon, the the damage of the channeled spell still take effect?

Hmm, that's a good question. Since a trip is still a melee attack, I think it does but I'm not entirely sure. If it does, then the wording of full round channeling lets you channel the spell the first time you attempt the trip, and then again after you trip and get a free attack via Improved Trip. Definitely worth looking into.

[Shadwen]

How would I go about finding out? I think that would be a very nice setup.

[PId6]

How would I go about finding out? I think that would be a very nice setup.

Well, I've asked in the simple Q&A thread. I'll see what others say about it.

[Shadwen]

Thank you. I think that might just give me what im looking for. I really like the duskblade on the rp value. They seem to be my rp style and such. If I can throw some power via trip in here, it would be very nice.

[Thespianus]

Through a single feat (Arcane Preparation), you gain access to Luminous Armor and Greater Luminous Armor

How?

Maybe I'm reading the wrong Feat, but Arcane Preparation doesn't seem to give you any new spells, and the L.A line of Spells isn't on the Duskblad spell list, right?

Maybe I haven't had enough morning coffee, though. ;)

[PId6]

How?

Maybe I'm reading the wrong Feat, but Arcane Preparation doesn't seem to give you any new spells, and the L.A line of Spells isn't on the Duskblad spell list, right?

Maybe I haven't had enough morning coffee, though. ;)

Arcane Preparation lets you prepare spells. Sanctified (and Corrupt) spells are available to anyone who can prepare spells. Therefore, with Arcane Preparation, a spontaneous caster (like the Duskblade) can prepare Sanctified spells (like Luminous Armor).

[Coidzor]

So... Sanctified and Corrupt spells automatically get added to the class list of everyone who can prepare spells of the appropriate type, arcane or divine? And they're from BoED and BoVD respectively?

Hmm, that's a good question. Since a trip is still a melee attack, I think it does but I'm not entirely sure. If it does, then the wording of full round channeling lets you channel the spell the first time you attempt the trip, and then again after you trip and get a free attack via Improved Trip. Definitely worth looking into.

Does it apply for the round or just for attacks? As, well, if for the round, then, yes and to any AoOs unless specified otherwise by like, errata or something. If for the attack, then gets a bit stickier as the AoO is basically a rider on the trip attempt and it might be tempting to houserule to defer the damage to the next time damage is dealt or include the damage as dealt with a success on the trip. The to-hit bonus definitely applies to the touch attack part, but, well, that's a touch attack, lol.

[Thespianus]

Arcane Preparation lets you prepare spells. Sanctified (and Corrupt) spells are available to anyone who can prepare spells. Therefore, with Arcane Preparation, a spontaneous caster (like the Duskblade) can prepare Sanctified spells (like Luminous Armor).

Nice. :) Thanks. I love being schooled.

[Thespianus]

So... Sanctified and Corrupt spells automatically get added to the class list of everyone who can prepare spells of the appropriate type, arcane or divine? And they're from BoED and BoVD respectively?

Yeah. It seems that way. So when the Duskblade levels up, after taking Arcane Preparation the level before, he can learn Greater Luminous Armor instead of one of the other spells on his spell list.

[Kurald Galain]

Arcane Disciple is a pretty good pick to expand your spell list.

[Thespianus]

Arcane Disciple is a pretty good pick to expand your spell list.

But it means you need to have decent Wisdom as well, usually a dump stat for a Duskblade.

[PId6]

So... Sanctified and Corrupt spells automatically get added to the class list of everyone who can prepare spells of the appropriate type, arcane or divine? And they're from BoED and BoVD respectively?

It's not really added to your spell list. You can just choose to prepare them as if they were in your spells known. They can be prepared by anyone that prepare spells, as long as your alignment matches. And yeah, BoED/VD.

Does it apply for the round or just for attacks? As, well, if for the round, then, yes and to any AoOs unless specified otherwise by like, errata or something. If for the attack, then gets a bit stickier as the AoO is basically a rider on the trip attempt and it might be tempting to houserule to defer the damage to the next time damage is dealt or include the damage as dealt with a success on the trip. The to-hit bonus definitely applies to the touch attack part, but, well, that's a touch attack, lol.

The wording is for the entire round, so yes, it would apply to the extra attack unless there's errata I'm not aware of. That's pretty nice.

Yeah. It seems that way. So when the Duskblade levels up, after taking Arcane Preparation the level before, he can learn Greater Luminous Armor instead of one of the other spells on his spell list.

You don't even need to pick it up as a spell known. It's just automatically available when you prepare spells, like a cleric with the cleric spell list. However, you do have to prepare it, so you can't cast them spontaneously.

[Jerthanis]

Hey guys, a question. Does the Duskblade have a supplemental spell list somewhere other than the PHB2?

Because as written, the only spells they actually have the option to channel into their weapons are Dispelling Touch and the one that teleports the touched person away from you. It specifies "Touch" range spells, but almost all their spells in the PHB2 are ranged spells, personal spells, or "touched weapon" spells.

Also, their description says they get 0th level spells per day, but the PHB2 doesn't have any 0th level Duskblade spells. This is why I think they must have a different spell list elsewhere, since you can just apply sanity and allow their ranged spells to be channeled as well. Of course you can just assume it's a typo.

[Rising Phoenix]

Hey guys, a question. Does the Duskblade have a supplemental spell list somewhere other than the PHB2?

Because as written, the only spells they actually have the option to channel into their weapons are Dispelling Touch and the one that teleports the touched person away from you. It specifies "Touch" range spells, but almost all their spells in the PHB2 are ranged spells, personal spells, or "touched weapon" spells.

Also, their description says they get 0th level spells per day, but the PHB2 doesn't have any 0th level Duskblade spells. This is why I think they must have a different spell list elsewhere, since you can just apply sanity and allow their ranged spells to be channeled as well. Of course you can just assume it's a typo.

Try page 24 of the PHBII. Their complete spell list is often missed.

[Shadwen]

So the trip works?

[Thespianus]

You don't even need to pick it up as a spell known. It's just automatically available when you prepare spells, like a cleric with the cleric spell list. However, you do have to prepare it, so you can't cast them spontaneously.

Why wouldn't you have to pick it up as a spell known? A Wizard has to add it to his spell book, in the normal fashion, and Duskblades can't cast spells they don't know.

Your argument is correct for a Beguiler, who can spontaneously cast all spells on his spell list, but the Duskblade has to pick spells when he levels up to be able to cast them, ie as all other spells work.

I can't find any text in BoED that supports your interpretation above, so please help me out. :)

[Shadwen]

Have no clue what this argument is helping. But ok.


So tripping allows for the spells to hit when tripping and the AoO afterwards?

[Curmudgeon]

I answered in the "Simple Q&A" thread, but here's the relevant part of the rules:

If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.

The spell effect won't occur until your melee attack deals damage. So a trip attack won't trigger the spell, but if you have Improved Trip you could discharge the spell on the bonus attack that the feat provides (assuming you deal damage, that is).

[PId6]

I can't find any text in BoED that supports your interpretation above, so please help me out. :)

BoED states that Sanctified spells are "available to any class that prepares spells." They "are specific to no character class" and are "neither inherently arcane nor divine spells." Nowhere does it say that you add Sanctified spells to casters' spell lists; they are explicitly on their own list. You cannot scribe a non-wizard spell to a wizard spellbook, and since Sanctified spells aren't wizard spells, you can't scribe them.

Because of that, and because of the fact that the book lumps together wizard with divine classes as "wizards, rangers, druids, and paladins can all prepare sanctified spells" and never once say that wizard requires scribing the spells into spellbook beforehand imply that they all prepare these spells in the same way. Otherwise wizards would have no way to prepare these spells, and the book specifically say that they can.

There's also circumstantial evidence in why spontaneous casters can't cast sanctified spells. If there were freely available to spontaneous casters, it'd be a huge power boost to sorcerer types since they would effectively double their spells known without any effort. If they had to be learned separately, however, there's no possible reason why sorcerers shouldn't be able to just pick a Sanctified spell as a spell known (besides the fact that 3e designers hate sorcerers).

[Shadwen]

I answered in the "Simple Q&A" thread, but here's the relevant part of the rules: The spell effect won't occur until your melee attack deals damage. So a trip attack won't trigger the spell, but if you have Improved Trip you could discharge the spell on the bonus attack that the feat provides (assuming you deal damage, that is).

Ok, so is the improved trip line with this duskblade still worth it in that aspect?

[Curmudgeon]

Ok, so is the improved trip line with this duskblade still worth it in that aspect?

Not necessarily. Deciding if you want Improved Trip is really an independent decision. If you're channeling a spell you just need to deliver damage, and it usually doesn't matter if your opponent is standing or prone at the time. If you don't have Improved Trip, just don't make trip attacks when you're using Arcane Channeling.

[Shadwen]

Ok, sounds good. any other tips in general?

[PId6]

The full attack Arcane Channeling doesn't have the requirement for dealing damage. Since it specifies "the spell affects each target you hit in melee that round," with a full attack you can trip touch attack, apply the spell, activate improved trip, and apply the spell again, doing this for each attack you make (assuming you trip an enemy each time). It should also apply to AoOs you make afterward, as long as you make them before the end of the round.

For non-full attack Arcane Channeling, you still get the spell on the Improved Trip extra attack, so it's still worth using.

[Curmudgeon]

It should also apply to AoOs you make afterward, as long as you make them before the end of the round.

The end of the round for you, if you don't change initiative, is always immediately before your next turn.

For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.

[Shadwen]

So definately still worth taking heh. Yeah, i think it will give a lil pinazze to my dwarven duskblade.

[Thespianus]

You cannot scribe a non-wizard spell to a wizard spellbook, and since Sanctified spells aren't wizard spells, you can't scribe them.

Thanks for your explanation but I think this is the breaking point, IMHO.

The PHB p179 only states:

Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook
Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her
spellbook.

which would seem to include Sanctified spells, no?

[Grifthin]

Remember to take Versatile Spellcaster - you get a fair few spells per day and being able to use 2 lower level slots for a higher level spell is awesome. Full Attack with vampiric touch anyone ?

Also - shocking grasp is good vs people in armor since you get a bonus to hit which can be traded for more power attack damage. The 5d6 per shot isn't half bad either.

Touch of fatigue is also great for nailing someone twice and making them exhausted.

True strike = good

There's also another feat, I think it's called Arcane strike - you can burn a spell slot to deal extra damage and + to attack based on the level of the spellslot used.

Here's a link to some AWESOME duskblade info:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...hp?topic=525.0

Have fun! (My last character was dragon of bahaumat duskblade with WINGS! and spiked chain - I flew around in mithral plate + animated shield kicking ass)