Defense Bonus Variant

[Scorpina]

So, I've been thinking about this variant of late. It looks really good to me, and I've always wanted to play in a campaign with less armour flying around (because I like pirate campaigns and urban based campaigns where it doesn't make sense for everyone to wear armour all the freaking time).

Has anyone used this, or a similar variant? Any comments on how it went?

[Spiryt]

I actually planned to use it stacked with armor, because AC is scaling ridiculously poorly.

Probably cut those to half actually, but I haven't got occasion to try.

[Friend Computer]

I find it works great with the armor as DR variant.

[Optimystik]

Melee get a nice boost to touch AC - handy when fighting undead or enemy casters.

The "armor = DR" variant could be a nice combo with this, as Friend Computer said.

[Eldariel]

I've given every character ½ level as AC bonus in low-magic worlds so magic item dependency is reduced; works like a charm combined with increased stat buffs and such.

[true_shinken]

I find it works great with the armor as DR variant.

I use it like this on my campaign and it works pretty well so far.

[Lin Bayaseda]

Unfortunately, this little clause kills the Defense Bonus for me:

Unlike an armor bonus, a defense bonus does improve a character’s AC against touch attacks.

This means touch spells, trip attacks, grapple attack, etc., are all neutered. Instead of making the combat more interesting, it makes it less interesting, because no one is going to go for special manuevers, it's just "I hit for X damage".

[Snake-Aes]

Unfortunately, this little clause kills the Defense Bonus for me:



This means touch spells, trip attacks, grapple attack, etc., are all neutered. Instead of making the combat more interesting, it makes it less interesting, because no one is going to go for special manuevers, it's just "I hit for X damage".

Just assume otherwise, then. Retype it as armor bonus if you want.

[Mike_G]

I've given every character ½ level as AC bonus in low-magic worlds so magic item dependency is reduced; works like a charm combined with increased stat buffs and such.

We do almost the same thing, but use 1/2 BAB, since being good a fighting usually means being hard to hit.

Plus, the melee guys need all the help they can get.

[Eldariel]

We do almost the same thing, but use 1/2 BAB, since being good a fighting usually means being hard to hit.

Plus, the melee guys need all the help they can get.

We don't have casters so that particular problem is mitigated, and I didn't feel like penalizing Monk and Rogue hence my choice. But I can see sides for both.

[Fax Celestis]

The variant's got merit, but making it an armor bonus that doesn't affect touch is a poor choice: I would make it a dodge bonus and call it a day. This makes flat-footing faaaaar more dangerous (which it should be, honestly), and gives sneak-attack-happy classes a little nudge.

[Snake-Aes]

The variant's got merit, but making it an armor bonus that doesn't affect touch is a poor choice: I would make it a dodge bonus and call it a day. This makes flat-footing faaaaar more dangerous (which it should be, honestly), and gives sneak-attack-happy classes a little nudge.

That can do, too. Gotta be combat-ready after all.

[Kaulesh]

Sounds like Iron Heroes. It's third-party material, but it includes rules on armor as DR and each type of class having a different inherent defensive bonus.

[true_shinken]

The variant's got merit, but making it an armor bonus that doesn't affect touch is a poor choice: I would make it a dodge bonus and call it a day. This makes flat-footing faaaaar more dangerous (which it should be, honestly), and gives sneak-attack-happy classes a little nudge.

I think it works this way as default.

[BLiZme.2]

I also like this with armor as DR but I like to use the armors Max dex limit as the limit on the Defense Bonus you can use.

[Fax Celestis]

I think it works this way as default.

Not quite.

The Class Defense Bonus

In this variant, every character has a defense bonus based on his character level. The defense bonus applies to Armor Class. However, it does not stack with the character’s armor bonus. A character wearing armor gains his armor bonus (including any enhancement to that bonus) or his defense bonus—whichever is higher—but not both. The defense bonus stacks with all other bonuses to AC, including the character’s shield bonus, natural armor bonus, and so forth.

Unlike an armor bonus, a defense bonus does improve a character’s AC against touch attacks.

[Scorpina]

Yes, I can see how it applying to touch attacks is a problem. I think I'd want to nix that in the interests of keeping things interesting. Applying it as a dodge bonus also sounds like a reasonable plan.

What do people think of the actual numbers? Before I found the version on the SRD, I'd been toying with the idea of changing BAB into a single 'Combat Bonus', which would apply to both attack and defense. Obviously, these numbers are much lower. Would my idea have been too powerful?

[ZeroNumerous]

Obviously, these numbers are much lower. Would my idea have been too powerful?

Well, lets see how this will affect monsters.

For example, a wyrmling green is AC 15 as is and a fighter 3 with STR 18 and a +1 weapon is swinging +8, hitting on a 7 or higher. BAB tacked onto AC, it changes to an 11 or higher as the wyrmling gains 4 more AC. Comparatively, the same fighter 3 with plate and DEX 12 will have 21 vs +7 from the wyrmling, who's only hitting on a 14 or higher.

This drags the fight out until someone gets lucky.

Later on, against a Juvenile Dragon, a Fighter 8 with 22 STR and a +2 weapon is swinging +16 vs 22, hitting on a 6 or higher. With BAB he's swinging +16 versus 36, hitting only on a natural 20. Comparatively, the fighter 8 will have a +2 plate and DEX 12 for 29 versus the Dragon's +17, who hits on a 12 or higher.

It's not as much of an issue at lower levels, monsters get a bit more bang for their buck at higher levels.

[mint]

Hitting is easier than avoiding hits.
Do you think that maybe this is intentional design? (not trying to be specious).
If it is as easy to hit as it is to avoid a hit, there is a lot of back and forth with rolls that in a sense, do not resolve anything.
Tilting the scales in favor of the mechanic that ends combat, truncates the process of resolving combat since, statistically, you would need less rolls.

I like the idea of being able to avoid hits and I am frustrated by how unrewarding it feels to play at avoiding hits.
Anyway, that was my thinking on adding armor beyond the basic bonuses provided by this defense variant.

Other than that, it is totally rad and solves the problems I was having in my post-technology control gibsony-tokyo-feudal campaign and I am going to implement it next monday. TYVM.