Best class for new players (3.x)

[Stevielash]

I will likely be soon starting up a 3.5 game with possible new players/ones with little experince and wanted to help create simple but intersting/effective characters from them.

My first thought was fighter but its a bit basic and likely not very appealing to possible girl players. (no offense intended). So what does the playground suggest?.

I have access to the complete series and it will be a 4 person party one of whom will be a Rogue/Swashbuckler daring outlaw for Skill monkey and combat in one. The power level will be about middle with 32 point buy, thats all the info I can think to give, thanks in advance.

[Lord Vampyre]

Your best bet is the keep them away from the spellcasting classes at first. Although, the sorcerer classes like Beguiler and Dread Necromancer are fairly easy to play. Since the spell selection is pre-determined. Other than that, as long as their starting at first level, they should have plenty of time to figure out what their character can do as they go up in level.

[Noodles2375]

I've found many new players really enjoy something simple and flavorful like the sorceror. They don't have to worry about picking spells each day, but they might like a little assistance making spell choices when they level up. Have them write each spell's relevant info on an index card and it is easy to keep track of how many 1st, 2nd,... etc spells they cast each day.

The Paladin can be really straightforward also. It only gets a small spell selection, small skill selection, has only a few modes in combat, and by the time spell choice is relevant, they should have a good handle on the basics.

[subject42]

Warlocks are always a good start for a beginner player, since they have always-available abilities.

[Greenish]

Warlocks and Dragonfire Adepts are pretty basic. Barbarians are nice and straightforward too, but fighters have too many traps: their only class feature relies purely on the player, bad feats will kill a fighter.

With martial adepts, it's hard to go wrong.

[oxybe]

warlock.

-decent stats & skill selection (could use more skill points but that could be said in reference to most 3.5 classes)
-the only thing about his casting that's reliant on a stat is the DCs (so stats don't matter much, unless you're going for high DCs).
-they can cast all day and don't require prep time
-they have acess to all-day versions of nice things (invis, flight, darkvision, see invis, ect...) and several neat AoE terrain control (Chilling tentacles, Caustic Mire, ect...).
-UMD class skill + they can take 10 on it
-able to substitute UMD instead of spells and make items

it's a nice class that's got versatility without being overly complicated.

[AmberVael]

The best classes for new players are ones that don't lock you into any particular ability, or give you a locked set of abilities that will always be good.

Complexity is an issue too, of course.

As such, classes like Wizard, Sorcerer, Fighter, and Warlock tend to be classes that should be used by players who have some experience (all of them rely pretty heavily on abilities that could be poorly selected).

If they don't mind looking up spells, Dread Necromancer, Cleric, and Beguiler are all good classes.
If they feel overwhelmed by that, I would also recommend Rogue and Factotum. The latter of those has a lot of abilities, but most of them are pretty simple, and can be summed up to "add this bonus to this."

[Greenish]

-decent stats & skill selection (could use more skill points but that could be said in reference to most all 3.5 classes)

Fixed that. Seriously, pump every class up a step or two (and fergodssakes give them spot and listen as class skills) and you'll only improve the game.

[lsfreak]

How optimized are the players you already have? Does batman wizard, chaintripper, and shock trooper mean anything to you?

If not, paladin, rogue, scout, and warlock are fairly easy and fairly straight-forward classes. If it's more optimized, lead them in the direction of wildshape rangers, swift hunters, sorcerers, and charging barbarians/paladins, giving them assistance with spell and feat selections.

My default suggestions are unavailable, which are Beguiler, Duskblade, and ToB.

[Zovc]

Tome of Battle classes with maneuvers selected for the player. Psions with powers chosen for the player. Warlocks/Dragonfire Adepts with their invocations chosen for the players.

Perhaps Barbarian, Rogue, or Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Spontaneous Cleric or Druid (with spells chosen for the player).

[Stevielash]

How optimized are the players you already have? Does batman wizard, chaintripper, and shock trooper mean anything to you

They do to me but not the players, thanks for all the responses. I will probably go with sorcer for one as they are quite simple and not gamebreaking for a new player while still being effecitve and interesting.

Tome of Battle is out sadly as I dont have it, what book is warlock in?.

[lsfreak]

Tome of Battle classes with maneuvers selected for the player. Psions with powers chosen for the player. Warlocks/Dragonfire Adepts with their invocations chosen for the players.

Perhaps Barbarian, Rogue, or Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Spontaneous Cleric or Druid (with spells chosen for the player).

I dislike having everything chosen for the player, but leading them in the right direction is good. Rather than saying, "okay, you have these spells," ask the player what exactly they want to do, and then give them some good options. Like if the player wants to play a blasty-sorcerer, point out that there are some very good non-blast or partial-blast spells as well, and that while fireball can be good, they don't need fireball and lightning bolt, and that one could be replaced with haste or slow.

EDIT: Warlock is Complete Arcane.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Warlocks are pretty simple, so that works well. If core only, I'd go Barbarian or Bard, despite the spells.

[Stevielash]

I dont know how I missed warlock when looking through complet arcane but it does seem perfect so thanks to all who suggested it. That means the party so far would be-

Rogue/Swashbuckler=Skillmonkey/BSF
Warlock=Blaster/Utility?

So for the other two what would everyone suggest?.

[Kaiyanwang]

In my experience, Warlocks, Dragonfire Adepts and Barbarians work very well for newbies.

Nevertheless, a warlock could not be the best for utilities alone.

Moreover, you need some meatshield and someone able to heal.

[Fenrazer]

Paladins good. Takes less time than the fighters too. W/ Fighters you will have your noob players constantly searching through looking for feats. Paladins on the other hand are good with Melee like the fighter but also: good back up healer, their abilities are all in a row on the same page, some of their powers are passive, so you dont need them to be conscious of all of them at first, they can pack a whallop with their smites, and once the player gets settled in and comfortable they start getting spells for supplement.

Pally all the way.

[Stevielash]

Moreover, you need some meatshield and someone able to heal.

So if I add a barbarian for the meatsheilding could the rogue&warlock get by healing from UMD and potions?. Would adding a ranger be a good option to balance things out, maybe with wildshape variant?

[Saint GoH]

I find barbarians to be incredibly simple. Stack strength and let them go into rage... It's typically satisfying to a newbie to be able to go "rawr you die NAO!"

[Maho-Tsukai]

I vote warlock, dragonfire adapt, anything from the TOB or cleric. Cleric may seam odd, but a cleric, despite having such a wide array of options is actually better then a sorcerer for a new player. If you pick the wrong spells for a sorcerer, it can seriously gimp or sometimes ruin your character, especially since they can only retrain at certain levels. Of course, you could hoserule them to work like NWN and have them able to retrain every level, which would make a sorc an easy enough class for a new player to grasp if you aid them with spells. Also, despite all of this, Sorcerer is still a good starting class if you help her out a bit. My first D&D character was a(horridly unoptimized) sorcerer and I had fun with him.

Cleric is a great class though, and if you don't use too many splatbooks/extra spells can be a decent way to learn. Clerics get some nice defenses both magically and armor wise, know all their spells(which means no having to select which spells you know.) and are forgiving enough where if you memorize the wrong spell for a situation they have enough survivability where they won't auto die like a wizard. The only downside is it may be hard for her to chose what spells to prepare, but as you said with a sorcerer, you can guide/aid her on that. Also, I am a firm believer in that the best way to become good at playing caster classes is to, well, play caster classes. Clerics are better then wizards for this because of the reasons I already mentioned plus the fact that overall, a cleric's spell list is less tricky then a wizard's. Yeah, a cleric has a lot of tricks, but he also has a lot of straightforward spells like his buffs, heals, ect....Also, a cleric is a better learning experience then a dedicated arcane caster because a cleric both casts and melees. This means she will learn a little bit about melee as well, and have a chance to try out both casting and fighting, thus allowing her to figure out which she likes better.

However, if you think the preparation and large spell list is too much for her to handle, I say that the Dread Necromancer is the next best bet. Dread Necromancers are fairly easy to use and have a fixed spell list like the beguiler and warmage. However, the dread necromancer is better then the other two because the warmage flat out sucks and the beguiler's spells may be a bit too "tricky" for her, being mostly illusions and enchantments. Dread Necromancers are somewhat more straightforward then beguilers and thus are better for newer players.

TOB stuff is a good starting point too, and with a bit of help selecting maneuvers can be played rather easily.

However, if you want to go for the absolute most simple route, Warlock and Dragonfire adapt are the best choices. However, if she's playing with mostly tier 1-2 classes she may feel a bit...underpowered. If that's the case stick to a Dread Necro, Sorcerer or Cleric.

[Kaiyanwang]

So if I add a barbarian for the meatsheilding could the rogue&warlock get by healing from UMD and potions?.

You are the DM, right? So, you can make them find all the items they need if makes sense in your campaign. Better than force someone to play something he does not like.

[Stevielash]

You are the DM, right? So, you can make them find all the items they need if makes sense in your campaign. Better than force someone to play something he does not like.

I am the DM yes, and its not really focing them if its part of the characters class, especialy as it is with the warlock as they can take 10 on UMD. However I would still have to somewhate liberal with potion availability and such.

[DragoonWraith]

I strongly suggest:

• Any Invocation user (Warlock, Dragonfire Adept)
• Any Martial Adept (Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade)
• Any full-list spontaneous Spellcaster (Beguiler, Dread Necromancer)

I strongly suggest avoiding:

• Any class which requires irrevocable choices that will haunt the character for the rest of his career (read: relies heavily on feats, chooses its own limited spell/power list, etc)
• Any class which has too many daily options (prepared Spellcasters, Binders, Meldshapers)

[AmberVael]

I strongly suggest:
Any Invocation user (Warlock, Dragonfire Adept)

*snip*

I strongly suggest avoiding:
Any class which requires irrevocable choices that will haunt the character for the rest of his career (read: relies heavily on feats, chooses its own limited spell/power list, etc)

See, this is what makes me confused. Because honestly? Bad invocation choice will really mess up at least a Warlock (Dragonfire Adept might be okay- they are kind of locked into being good with at least their breath weapon). And Warlocks get really few invocations, and not much opportunity to change them.

You could potentially be left with not much more than a subpar eldritch blast to go on, and that would be pretty bad.

They're kind of like a Sorcerer... they might be slightly harder to totally mess up, but you have to follow a formula pretty closely to get them right, and that 'right' is even worse than an okay Sorcerer.

[DragoonWraith]

Honestly, I can't think of any Invocations that are really going to screw you over. I mean, some are better than others, but for the most part they're pretty obvious, and further, for the most part, plenty of other things are good too. There aren't many blasty Invocations because the Eldritch Blast covers that, so that removes a major trap.

The Sorcerer, on the other hand, has a lot of "trap" options.

[tyckspoon]

I am the DM yes, and its not really focing them if its part of the characters class, especialy as it is with the warlock as they can take 10 on UMD. However I would still have to somewhate liberal with potion availability and such.

Assuming you have a competent UMD user or two (or even just somebody with the appropriate spell on the class list- heck, a Ranger will do) you can throw them a pair of caster level 1 wands of Cure Light Wounds and call it a day- there's enough healing there to keep them standing until somewhere around level 6.

[Lin Bayaseda]

My first thought was fighter but its a bit basic and likely not very appealing to possible girl players. (no offense intended).

Paladin. The class you want here is Paladin.

[Soras Teva Gee]

A consideration: how new are they to RPGs period and tabletop in particular.

Do the basic basic classes not mean a damn thing to them or the idea of stats. Or for that matter the basic mechanics. Or have they done some other type of gaming before so the notion that magic comes in more then one flavor won't be any big shock because they've had to make build choices before.

I bring it up because my first campaign was a starter one where everybody but the DM and the DM's friend (played a heal-bot cleric) was new. That was a core only game, and bringing other material into the equation would not have helped. I might have been fine, but that's I was running off the Baldur's Gate series being one of my fave games and BAB had nothing on THAC0 to me.

So sticking to core might not be a bad idea. With good stat rolls and you selecting equipment a fairly low magic campaign should be right up a martial class' alley. There's plenty of people that play D&D and have never optimize while playing weapon focus fighters, monks, and blaster wizards, they survive (or not) and still have fun.

[Zaq]

A consideration: how new are they to RPGs period and tabletop in particular.

Do the basic basic classes not mean a damn thing to them or the idea of stats. Or for that matter the basic mechanics. Or have they done some other type of gaming before so the notion that magic comes in more then one flavor won't be any big shock because they've had to make build choices before.

I bring it up because my first campaign was a starter one where everybody but the DM and the DM's friend (played a heal-bot cleric) was new. That was a core only game, and bringing other material into the equation would not have helped. I might have been fine, but that's I was running off the Baldur's Gate series being one of my fave games and BAB had nothing on THAC0 to me.

So sticking to core might not be a bad idea. With good stat rolls and you selecting equipment a fairly low magic campaign should be right up a martial class' alley. There's plenty of people that play D&D and have never optimize while playing weapon focus fighters, monks, and blaster wizards, they survive (or not) and still have fun.

The problem is that 3.5 core is so unbalanced that it's incredibly easy to accidentally overpower your teammates. You don't have to dive into Clericzilla to just say "huh, this spell is a buff, and it's personal only. I think I'll try it... hey, why am I suddenly better than the fighter?" Hell, just playing a Druid at all means that you're going to be accidentally better than a fighter, monk, or ranger, even if you don't pick the best possible spells and best possible WS options. They're that good, and the T5 and lower classes are that bad.

No, it's much better to determine a power level ahead of time, introduce players to a game that doesn't make half of them irrelevant, and then gradually explain why and how things like this work as they get used to the system and want to branch out.

[DragoonWraith]

Paladin. The class you want here is Paladin.

The class you want is never Paladin. It's a terribly designed class, and pretty weak and difficult to play, to boot.

[Greenish]

Paladin. The class you want here is Paladin.

Pathfinder paladin, to be exact.