(3.5) Optimization...at level 1

[Ilmryn]

Can a level 1 character be optimized? I do not think this is possible, but then again, I didn't think things like Pun-Pun were possible either.

I am challenging the Playground to build an optimized level 1 character.

• Must be ECL 1(so no LA)

• 0 xp

• 300 gp

• no homebrew

• All sourcebooks allowed, but please note which ones you used

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

In before Druid 1.

[Flickerdart]

Optimized to do what, exactly? Even at 1st level, there is a great deal of shenanigans (Phrenic Incarnate Warforged Wizard, for instance) that can accomplish many different things.

[AlterForm]

Take a look at the Arena Tournament in the Play by Post forums. Lots of neato L1 character builds. One of the most recent winners is a 20-ft reach tentacle-grappling commoner.

They don't stack up to most Optimized builds at higher levels and will usually have a PvP focus (although there isn't much difference between Fighter1 and a CR1 monster), but the Arena folks come up with fun combos from time to time.

[Private-Prinny]

Can a level 1 character be optimized? I do not think this is possible, but then again, I didn't think things like Pun-Pun were possible either.

Funny you should mention Pun-Pun...

[Heliomance]

Old Dragonwrought Kobold Paladin 1
Int 20
4 ranks Knowledge (Religion)
Skill Focus (Knowledge (Religion))
Masterwork tome of Knowledge (Religion)
Absent-minded trait

[Snake-Aes]

Can a level 1 character be optimized? I do not think this is possible, but then again, I didn't think things like Pun-Pun were possible either.

I am challenging the Playground to build an optimized level 1 character.

• Must be ECL 1(so no LA)

• 0 xp

• 300 gp

• no homebrew

• All sourcebooks allowed, but please note which ones you used

Optimization stands for making the best possible use of tools at your disposal. It is possible to optimize within any boundaries that give you options. Semantics show that yes, you can optimize level 1 characters =P A sun elf wizard with 20 int is more optimized than a half orc wizard that dumped int!

[Greenish]

The Terminator.

Warforged Barbarian 1, spirit lion totem, whirling frenzy.
Adamantine Body, Toughness, Troll Blooded*.

*Only prerequisites for Troll Blooded (according to my sources, don't have the dragon mag at hand) are Toughness and the right region. It doesn't say you have to actually have blood.

[Bayar]

Half elf Bard with a CHA score of 18, 4 ranks in diplomacy, a masterwork diplomacy tool, the two traits that would grant a bonus to diplomacy, skill focus diplomacy as a feat and the ACF that swaps Countersong with Soothing voice.

Start singing with soothing voice then diplomance the **** out of them with your +15 modifier at level 1.

[Knaight]

Yeah, there is a lot you can do. If I want I could make a warblade who can do 25 damage on a single hit, that's optimizing damage. I could optimize HP and AC with a fighter to make a defensive wall (completely worthless for anyone at a higher level, but AC actually matters at level 1). I could optimize a wizard by taking sleep, color spray, grease, and similar instead of magic missile so as to be able to take down encounters on my own. Etc. etc.

Give the forum a few level 1 goals to make as powerful as possible, and it will prove that level 1 optimization is doable.

[OldTrees]

Another Example (non caster I know)

Dwarf Kensai (alternate fighter class)
Hit Dice: [1d10+8] (18 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20ft (4 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+2 Dex, Chain Shirt +4, Large Shield +2)
Touch AC: 12
Flat-footed AC: 16
Attack: Kusari-Gama 1d20+4 melee 1d6+3 (20/x2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./10 ft.
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 4/-, Darkvision 60ft
Saves: Fortitude +7, Reflexes +2, Will -1
Abilities: Strength 14, Constitution 20, Dexterity 14, Intelligence 8, Wisdom 8, Charisma 6
Skills: Balance [4] +6
Flaws/ Feats: Fussy, Shaky/Toughness, Roll With It (x2)
Gear: Kusari-Gama, Large Shield, Chain Shirt

Kensai trades martial weapon proficiencies and a bonus feat for 1 weapon martial/exotic proficiency and +1attack/damage

Sources Used:
PHB: Dwarf, Fighter, Toughness, Large Shield, Chain Shirt
DMG: Kusari-Gama
Savage Species: Roll With It
Dragon #328: Fussy Flaw
Dragon #310: Kensai

[Hague]

What the hell is a "Masterwork diplomacy tool?"

[Greenish]

Give the forum a few level 1 goals to make as powerful as possible, and it will prove that level 1 optimization is doable.

Well, "as powerful as possible" is a bit tricky, because that's Pun-Pun.

What the hell is a "Masterwork diplomacy tool?"

Soap on a rope.

[Dusk Eclipse]

What the hell is a "Masterwork diplomacy tool?"

GP and extra characters

[Critical]

Desert Half-Orc Wizard with the highest base weight possible. First turn of battle he sends his raven familiar over the opponents head and casts Enlarge Person on himself. Then he casts Benign Transposition on him and the familiar and deals 20d6 damage.

Neat, huh?

[Heliomance]

What the hell is a "Masterwork diplomacy tool?"

Appropriate, good quality clothing? A gift? Could be allsorts.

[Sitzkrieg]

What the hell is a "Masterwork diplomacy tool?"

These:

[Critical]

These:

That's a masterwork bluff tool.

[Morph Bark]

Appropriate, good quality clothing? A gift? Could be allsorts.

One reason I prefer Rich Burlew's remake of the Diplomacy rules into dealbreaking rather than friendmaking.

[Mongoose87]

What the hell is a "Masterwork diplomacy tool?"

Probably C-3P0.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Probably C-3P0.

[/thread ] you win sir

[Ilmryn]

Yeah, there is a lot you can do. If I want I could make a warblade who can do 25 damage on a single hit, that's optimizing damage. I could optimize HP and AC with a fighter to make a defensive wall (completely worthless for anyone at a higher level, but AC actually matters at level 1). I could optimize a wizard by taking sleep, color spray, grease, and similar instead of magic missile so as to be able to take down encounters on my own. Etc. etc.

Give the forum a few level 1 goals to make as powerful as possible, and it will prove that level 1 optimization is doable.

Goal #1: Beat a moster of CR 9 or higher.
Goal #2: Be able to make it throgh adventures designed for level 5+

[Ilmryn]

[QUOTE=Greenish;8740283]Well, "as powerful as possible" is a bit tricky, because that's Pun-Pun.[QUOTE]

The only Pun-Pun build I've ever see has 5 levels and LA to boot. Can pun-pun be done at level 1 with no xp and only 300gp? If so, post the link.

[Greenish]

Goal #1: Beat a moster of CR 9 or higher.

Which monster?

[Edit]:

The only Pun-Pun build I've ever see has 5 levels and LA to boot. Can pun-pun be done at level 1 with no xp and only 300gp? If so, post the link.

Pay attention.

Funny you should mention Pun-Pun...

Old Dragonwrought Kobold Paladin 1
Int 20
4 ranks Knowledge (Religion)
Skill Focus (Knowledge (Religion))
Masterwork tome of Knowledge (Religion)
Absent-minded trait

[Bayar]

What the hell is a "Masterwork diplomacy tool?"

Cologne .

The only Pun-Pun build I've ever see has 5 levels and LA to boot. Can pun-pun be done at level 1 with no xp and only 300gp? If so, post the link.

I drew this myself

Long Story: You use this:

Old Dragonwrought Kobold Paladin 1
Int 20
4 ranks Knowledge (Religion)
Skill Focus (Knowledge (Religion))
Masterwork tome of Knowledge (Religion)
Absent-minded trait

And roll a Knowlege (religion) check to find out that you can summon Pazuzu by saying his name 3 times. Pazuzu likes corrupting paladins. You wish for a LE Candle of Invocation. Then follow the flowchart.

[Rothen]

Funny you should mention Pun-Pun...

Some of the comments written on there are hilarious.

[Escheton]

The prereq for trollblooded is actually a human from that region.

so a human binder bound to aym for fire resist 10, fire dmg to foe when hit and improved sunder and those feats is pretty optimized. Deals double damage to objects.
Who needs a warblade or adamantium?

[Greenish]

The prereq for trollblooded is actually a human from that region.

Aww shucks. Are you sure?

[lsfreak]

Aww shucks. Are you sure?

I thought you could qualify for feats from other regions, provided you have Knowledge (local: <region>) 2 ranks.

[Knaight]

Well, "as powerful as possible" is a bit tricky, because that's Pun-Pun.

Except for Pun-Pun only achieves the goal for as powerful as possible, whereas it was "as powerful as possible" within a goal, so obviously one couldn't just betray a concept. Which is what Pun-Pun does to every concept other than 'as powerful as possible" or similar.

Now, on the specific goals. Goal #2, is it 1 character we are trying to push through an adventure intended for level 5 plus, or a party of level 1s. Furthermore, can he/she/they level up during the adventure as normal, or are we restricting that. Lastly, pick an adventure.