3.5 new player needs help

[RipperOfShirts]

So I'm starting a new game, and the DM has decided that everyone has a randomly selected race with a randomly selected template. Well, I got a Half-Fiend on top of basic human. Which is cool I guess, I'm new at the 3.5 thing (it's a non-evil game, so CN here I come) so I don't know how good/bad this is.

Anyway, it's ECL 8, giving me 4 levels to play with. I'm looking for a melee class, rolling for stats soon. Any suggestions? I'm allowed core, complete series and ToB. Would a Warblade be viable here? The class looks good to me, but again, new at this.

[Dusk Eclipse]

.. can't you ask for a re-roll? Half fiend is a good template on gestalt or on monster, you loose too many levels to be effective.


Though yeah warblades is a great option of you want melee, though I prefer swordsage myself but generally I prefer skillful classes

[Ilmryn]

So I'm starting a new game, and the DM has decided that everyone has a randomly selected race with a randomly selected template. Well, I got a [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfFiend.htm]Half-Fiend[/url] on top of basic human. Which is cool I guess, I'm new at the 3.5 thing (it's a non-evil game, so CN here I come) so I don't know how good/bad this is.

Anyway, it's ECL 8, giving me 4 levels to play with. I'm looking for a melee class, rolling for stats soon. Any suggestions? I'm allowed core, complete series and ToB. Would a Warblade be viable here? The class looks good to me, but again, new at this.

With the all-around bonuses, especially to str, dex, and int, a swashbuckler using two kukris can be a fun crit machine. Especially if you can afford keen ones With those bonuses, you could be(assuming base 14 in str and int before template adjustments and a +1 keen kukri, depending on the campaign, your stats will probably be higher than this) dishing out 1d4+9 damage twice per turn with 15-20 crit(meaning every fourth attack is a critical threat). Also, since you would have a bite attack, which counts as a light weapon, you could attack a third time for 1d6+6, albeit at -5(-2 if you take multiattack). A player I know uses a similar build, but with half-celestial.

I don't have ToB, so i don't know if the stuff from it is better.

[Beelzebub1111]

Well, I would recommend Multiattack as a feat. Maybe improved natural attack (bite). Nothing wrong with an extra attack, especially with a melee fighter. A masterwork composite bow with a strength rating as a secondary weapon wouldn't hurt as you have a racial bonus to STR and DEX. (take some flying feats and you get someone who can hit fliers and hit from flying)

You'll get some good spell like abilities at higher levels, so don't be afraid to get a decent charisma.

Half fiends have some kick ass resistances, and DR. Don't be afraid to get into range of something big despite your lower hitpoints due to LA.

[RipperOfShirts]

.. can't you ask for a re-roll? Half fiend is a good template on gestalt or on monster, you loose too many levels to be effective.

Not so much worried about being effective overall as being creative with what I've got.

Well, I would recommend Multiattack as a feat. Maybe improved natural attack (bite). Nothing wrong with an extra attack, especially with a melee fighter. A masterwork composite bow with a strength rating as a secondary weapon wouldn't hurt as you have a racial bonus to STR and DEX. (take some flying feats and you get someone who can hit fliers and hit from flying)

You'll get some good spell like abilities at higher levels, so don't be afraid to get a decent charisma.

Half fiends have some kick ass resistances, and DR. Don't be afraid to get into range of something big despite your lower hitpoints due to LA.

Was thinking airborne fighter. Ambushes and death from above and whatnot. I tend to play characters who don't mind getting severely hurt for style points. And multiattack you say? Seems popular so far so I might go for that. The DM should be here in about 20 minutes, just so I can roll stats in front of him, so I can ask what number should go where.

[Beelzebub1111]

Not so much worried about being effective
Was thinking airborne fighter. Ambushes and death from above and whatnot. I tend to play characters who don't mind getting severely hurt for style points. And multiattack you say? Seems popular so far so I might go for that. The DM should be here in about 20 minutes, just so I can roll stats in front of him, so I can ask what number should go where.

Well, If you roll a 16 put it in strength as composite bows only go up to +5 in strength ratings.

If you're going with flying fighting Can't go wrong with Hover (so you can get full attacks against something with a perfect fly speed and shoot death from above), Multi-attack, Flyby Attack (to be a pesky bug)

[RipperOfShirts]

Ok, got my stats. 18, 16, 16, 15, 12, 11. I'm pretty happy with that. Also, flaws and traits have been allowed, so help with those would be nice. And I know my fellow players now. A goblin wereboar barbarian, drow sorcerer and gnoll scout.

Edit: after looking at hover, definitely taking. Midair combat, and full-action bow death, yes please. Although warblade gets no ranged weapon proficiency, so maybe a different class is in order

[IdleMuse]

Flaw-wise, the 'best' ones to take are (obviously) the ones that least hurt your character. For melee users, take Shaky, for Ranged, take non-comb. Murky-Eyed is weird, it forces you to reroll successful concealment checks; a lot of 'builds' choose it dince it has no outright mechanical penalty, and is supposedly rare in circumstance, but I've been in too many night-time ambushes IC to risk it any more.

The save-reducing ones are usually pretty interesting; there's two schools of thought. Either you lower the save that's already low and failing anyway, or you lower your highest save since it'll still be passing the majority of the time.

[Greenish]

Vulnerable is pretty minor. Inattentive doesn't do anything, really, since you won't see nor hear anything anyway.

[RipperOfShirts]

I'd probably be lowering Will. I can see him being high-impulse, so a Will penalty would actually suit. I do plan to be melee-centric, with some ranged backup, so neither shaky or non-combantant would suit. As for murky-eyed, I have Darkvison 60ft. so night ambuses should be fine. I don't know about other stuff that causes miss chances though. How common/likely is that to come up?
Vulnerable would cancel natural armor bonus, so even less for me than for others it would seem. Innatentive I'm not sure about. I don't the idea of flying blind.

As for traits, thinking nightsighted and passionate or slow(just rely on wings). good choices?

[Greenish]

I'd probably be lowering Will. I can see him being high-impulse, so a Will penalty would actually suit.

Your Will save is already low (if you take warblade). "High-impulse" doesn't mean the same as "easy to mindrape" to me. Yes, you can replace a will save once every two rounds with a concentration check. I still wouldn't do it.

Innatentive I'm not sure about. I don't the idea of flying blind.

Your 3 cross-class ranks and inexistent wis bonus aren't going to notice anything that doesn't want to be noticed at ECL 8.

[RipperOfShirts]

Your Will save is already low (if you take warblade). "High-impulse" doesn't mean the same as "easy to mindrape" to me. Yes, you can replace a will save once every two rounds with a concentration check. I still wouldn't do it.Your 3 cross-class ranks and inexistent wis bonus aren't going to notice anything that doesn't want to be noticed at ECL 8.

And this is why I ask for help. I wouldn't have even considered these points.
Although for the will save... character? Sorry, from a bit of a drama background, so a character that is easy to brainwash wouldn't sit so badly with me. I may be just weid noobish like that.

[Tyger]

Although for the will save... character? Sorry, from a bit of a drama background, so a character that is easy to brainwash wouldn't sit so badly with me. I may be just weid noobish like that.

Nothing "noobish" about that. Non-optimized of course, but not noobish. Even those of us that do try to optimize our characters do (at least in my case) make choices for our characters that are RP driven, rather than op-fu driven. Not everything is about power.

The advice you have been given here is all really good thus far, so the only thing I will chime in is to make one small suggestion - you have a tank that'll hit for a bunch (the barbarian), a scout for (presumably) ranged damage, and a sorcerer who can fill a lot of roles, but you are a tad lacking in the defensive area. Warblades can make awesome battlefield control warriors, though Crusaders can go full on "tank" mode very easily. Something that utilizes a tripping or lockdown build might add more to the overall party situation than a flying archer.

That said, and as my original point notes, rule of fun goes first, wayyyyy in advance of anything else.

[Greenish]

Even those of us that do try to optimize our characters do (at least in my case) make choices for our characters that are RP driven, rather than op-fu driven. Not everything is about power.

Lies and heresy! I never play anything less than a Pun-Pun!

[RipperOfShirts]

Nothing "noobish" about that. Non-optimized of course, but not noobish. Even those of us that do try to optimize our characters do (at least in my case) make choices for our characters that are RP driven, rather than op-fu driven. Not everything is about power.

The advice you have been given here is all really good thus far, so the only thing I will chime in is to make one small suggestion - you have a tank that'll hit for a bunch (the barbarian), a scout for (presumably) ranged damage, and a sorcerer who can fill a lot of roles, but you are a tad lacking in the defensive area. Warblades can make awesome battlefield control warriors, though Crusaders can go full on "tank" mode very easily. Something that utilizes a tripping or lockdown build might add more to the overall party situation than a flying archer.

That said, and as my original point notes, rule of fun goes first, wayyyyy in advance of anything else.

The 'flying archer' is more 'rule of cool secondary option'. Going to be bringing the melee up close. Having lunch with the Barbarian and Sorcerer shortly, so talking tactics and junk. They know more than I do on this stuff. Might look up Crusader, maybe multiclass? What are the features? I don't have access to any of the books atm, so don't know what it has

[Tyger]

Crusader is another of the base classes in the Tome of Battle, where you'll find the Warblade. Unlike the Warblade, you'll need the book for it. Perhaps someone in the group will have it.

I like Crusader for a lot of reasons. Most notably, they make some of the best "tank" characters in the game. With a dash of optimization, even at lower levels than you are starting at, they can pretty much absorb damage like a sponge, using that pain to make themselves stronger in combat, while never actually taking any of the damage. :) Confused yet?

Warblade is what fighter should have been. Crusader is what paladin should have been. That's the easiest analogy I can give you there. Which, considering your CN Half-Fiend, may not be the best analogy to make, but there is nothing to say that you can't do it. Depends on what you want for the character, and their background.

[RipperOfShirts]

The DM has the book, I do not. Crusader doesn't sound so bad actually. And I'm off to lunch. Feel free to keep placing advise for me to read upon getting back

[Harperfan7]

Honestly, I would play a rogue/swashbuckler daring outlaw. You'll be competent at melee and not waste most of your racial abilities (your highest are dex and int, right?). If you go with the swashbuckler end of daring outlaw you will have most of the things a warrior wants (high HD, good fort, lots of damage).

Put good scores in dex/int/cha, get multiattack and two weapon fighting for several sneak attacks per round. You can get weapon finesse with your natural attacks, and if you have insightful strike you get your int mod to damage on each attack.

Too bad your smite good will probably go to waste, as will some of your spell like abilities, and since some of them are evil spells, casting them is an evil act - something to think about.

[RipperOfShirts]

So, after lunch and conversation, it seems things have changed. The gnoll showed up as well, and after explaining what I'd been given, and the discussion of raining death from above, he decided that he'd leave ranged combat to me, and rethink his idea.

So, airbourne with a composite bow. Greatbow worth the feat? What's a good way to rain death from above? Class and feat wise, what's good?


EDIT: looking through class variants, found a Barbarian variant that removes the rage and indomitable will and gives favoured enemy and ranger archery feats. Viable?