4e Psionic Utility: Telekinetic Lift

[Fenrazer]

In the event that you are not familiar with the power, reference page 85 of players handbook three, under level two Psion utilities.

Yes, it is 4e, so for those of you who have beef against the system, take ur cows elsewhere =-].

My questions are these:

Can I use it to life myself?

Say I were to use this to wield a weapon, and somebody were to take a hold of the weapon, do I lose control of it?

Are there any unconventional uses that you are able to produce that the rules do not cover?

[Kurald Galain]

Can I use it to life myself?

By RAW, it affects an ally, unconscious enemy, or object; since you are none of the three, you cannot lift yourself. It is a bit silly that you can airlift allies but not yourself; then again, this is by far the most low-level flight effect in the game.

Say I were to use this to wield a weapon, and somebody were to take a hold of the weapon, do I lose control of it?

Yes, because the target is no longer valid.

Are there any unconventional uses that you are able to produce that the rules do not cover?

Sure. Lift a rock, move it over somebody's head, and drop it; the rules don't cover what happens next. Or, have an ally grab an enemy, then lift that ally; the rules don't cover that either. Or, if an enemy is standing on a floor tile, lift the floor tile.

[Excession]

I would say you can't wield a weapon with the power. You can pick up something sharp and drop it on someone, but it doesn't seem like it would have the speed or precision to really use a weapon. Even "manipulating" an object is probably out; powers like Far Hand and Mage Hand include that word specifically, while Telekinetic Lift does not.

[Tiki Snakes]

By RAW, it affects an ally, unconscious enemy, or object; since you are none of the three, you cannot lift yourself. It is a bit silly that you can airlift allies but not yourself; then again, this is by far the most low-level flight effect in the game.

You are lifting something using the power of your mind. It's just as impossible to lift yourself this way in order to fly as it is to grab hold of your own boot-straps and haul yourself into the air.
That's how I look at it.

Sure. Lift a rock, move it over somebody's head, and drop it; the rules don't cover what happens next. Or, have an ally grab an enemy, then lift that ally; the rules don't cover that either. Or, if an enemy is standing on a floor tile, lift the floor tile.

Improvised attack, perfect page-42 situation. High damage value I'd say, depending on the size of the rock. Probably not the limited time high, because the power can be sustained by juggling a second rock.

Forced movement breaks a grab, so lifting the ally would not acheive much.

Well, depending on the size of the tile and the weight of the combined tile and enemy (would have to be below the power's maximum threshold, obviously) then you would raise the enemy into the air, but they would probably get a save to jump out of the way, just like with forced-movement-into-hazardous-terrain. Depending on stuff, they'd probably fall prone even on the save, though.

[Kurald Galain]

You are lifting something using the power of your mind. It's just as impossible to lift yourself this way in order to fly as it is to grab hold of your own boot-straps and haul yourself into the air.

Yes, but funnily enough you can ride a mount and then haul the mount into the air...

Improvised attack, perfect page-42 situation. High damage value I'd say, depending on the size of the rock. Probably not the limited time high, because the power can be sustained by juggling a second rock.

Sure, it's easy to deal with such situations as a DM, but the OP was asking for some situations that weren't covered by the rules. Given a telekinetic power with no weight limit, it's not that hard to come up with a bunch.

[Fenrazer]

Yes, but funnily enough you can ride a mount and then haul the mount into the air...


Sure, it's easy to deal with such situations as a DM, but the OP was asking for some situations that weren't covered by the rules. Given a telekinetic power with no weight limit, it's not that hard to come up with a bunch.

It does have a 400 lb weight limit, but still, right on.

I figured you might be able to use a weapon and all, just take a serious penalty. Like using Luke Skywalkers style of light saber combat: swing it around like a stick.

If you guys think of anything else, let me know.

[Fenrazer]

Oh, TK related: if I have a power like TK Anchor, which is on the same page, does forced movement active the damage one might take from moving after being hit with said power?

[Kurald Galain]

Oh, TK related: if I have a power like TK Anchor, which is on the same page, does forced movement active the damage one might take from moving after being hit with said power?

Yes, but TKA specifies that only movement on the creature's own turn triggers the damage. So if you somehow manage to cause it forced movement during its own turn, then yes. The standard trick for doing this is readying an action, but there's a few other ways such as the Earth Brute spell.

[Nightson]

Yes, but TKA specifies that only movement on the creature's own turn triggers the damage. So if you somehow manage to cause it forced movement during its own turn, then yes. The standard trick for doing this is readying an action, but there's a few other ways such as the Earth Brute spell.

Are there really DMs who would allow that sort of thing?

[Fenrazer]

So the Psion Feature Forceful Push should do the trick then? Free action and causes movement.

[Kurald Galain]

Are there really DMs who would allow that sort of thing?

What, readying an action to get around the "movement on the creature's own turn" restriction? Hm, probably not; this is one of those little things that are technically RAW where charop asserts that Everybody Must Play This Way, whereas in fact just about everybody doesn't.

Nevertheless, a few powers exist that explicitly cause a creature to be force-moved during its own turn, so these will trigger TKA. It's not a very strong combo though, and rather obscure.

Forceful Push would work, although I'll wager this will be errata'ed in the July release to "free action during your turn". There's been too much discussion about whether this can be used as an interrupt, and that probably wasn't the intent.

[Thajocoth]

Readying is a delay of your turn's Standard Action. Then you move yourself right before the triggering enemy in initiative order. You're finishing your own turn, not doing something in the middle of another's.

[Kurald Galain]

Readying is a delay of your turn's Standard Action. Then you move yourself right before the triggering enemy in initiative order. You're finishing your own turn, not doing something in the middle of another's.

Yes. This strikes me as more reasonable than the loophole I mentioned earlier, which is why I suspect that few if any DMs allow said loophole. I mean, "healing by drowning" is also arguably RAW...

[Thajocoth]

I mean, "healing by drowning" is also arguably RAW...

I'm aware this works in Mario 64. I have not heard of this in D&D.

[Fenrazer]

I'm aware this works in Mario 64. I have not heard of this in D&D.

First thing I thought of as well haha

[TimeWizard]

The rules say drowing brings you to 0 hp. So you could argue that throwing a -8 hp character in the water brings them to 0 hp, thus "healing" them.

[Person_Man]

Instead of a mount, which might be too heavy to lift, buy a chariot or a saddle or a manhole cover, all of which are objects. Get on. Lift it. You have now essentially lifted yourself with Telekinetic Lift.

Also, it'd be easy to set up a variety of traps, lure your enemies into a room, and then set them off with TL. Of course, that's more useful for enemies then players, but you get the point.

[Fenrazer]

Suppose I were standing on a Tensers Floating disc then?