Help with Retraining a warlock? (3.5e)

[CubeB]

Okay:

I play a Warlock with overt connections to Shadow. Originally, I was optimized for a Stupid Warlock Trick of dropping down from the ceiling and impaling the enemy with a hideous blow.

That worked out great... For like the first encounter.

I soon realized that it wasn't the best build for a Warlock.

Luckily, my DM allows the use of modified retraining rules.

Here's the skinny: You can retrain everything but Ability Scores. (Race and Ability score are fundamental aspects of the character, and can only be edited by magic we don't have access to.) Alignment isn't an issue.

Here are the relevant parts of my current build:

Mortimer Blake
((Asterisked* options are out for sure.))
Human Warlock 4

STR: 14
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 13
WIS: 13
CHA: 16

25 HP

Invocations
Hideous Blow*
Spiderwalk
Leaps and Bounds*

Feats
Armor Proficiency (Medium)
Battle Caster
Weapon Focus (Longspear)*

Skills
7 Ranks in the Following
Knowledge (The Planes)
Spellcraft
Use Magic Device

5 Cross Class ranks in Tumble*

Languages: Common, Undercommon

Now, two options are immediately apparent to me.

1. Take a level in Bard. Replace Tumble with Knowledge (Arcana). Shuffle Feats around to grab one that allows for the casting of a 2nd level Arcane Spell. Take Levels in Eldritch Theurge.
2. Replace Tumble with Intimidate. Learn to speak Infernal. Become a Hellfire Warlock.

The more things that I change, the more expensive retraining will become.

The minimum cost for retraining is as follows:

Class: 500gp per level
Feat: 75 GP
Skill: 25 GP per rank.
Invocation: 5gp per Spell Level.

In addition to an as of yet uncalculated retraining fee.

Here are some other important notes.

• The main villain of the campaign is a Necromancer, so there will be a lot of undead.
• Sorcerers in this setting are the result of genetic experimentation by the Magocracy. (Any sufficently advanced magic is indistinguishable from SCIENCE!) In addition, cross classing Warlock and Sorcerer will eventually kill you.
• Any class feature that grants a familiar or animal companion is replaced with an alternate class feature.
• I cannot gain a fly speed or a mount, even through invocations.
• Wish, Miracle, True Rez and the like are impossible.
• Alignment Restrictions are lax.
• The fact that my character is bound to Shadow is key to the current plot. Plus I can't afford a total class retrain.
• I don't want to be uber optimized.. I want something, functional and fun to play. Not something that unbalances the game. (At least, not at more than a wizard does.)

So yeah... please help?

[PId6]

Get rid of Medium Armor Proficiency and Battle Caster; Scale Mail provides +1 AC more than a Chain Shirt, while Mithril Full Plate is way too expensive to be worth it. If you really want your AC high, UMD an Eternal Wand of Greater Mage Armor or a Minor Schema of Greater Luminous Armor.

Bard is a terrible class to go into Eldritch Theurge with. Your spellcasting isn't nearly as good as it could be, and you lose out on most of Bard's class features that are supposed to make up for that. Sorcerer is much better in this case.

I'd suggest just sticking with Warlock and go into Hellfire Warlock later, either using Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest) to negate the Con damage or, if your DM dislikes that, dipping one level of Binder for Naberius.

Finally, have you seen the Warlock Handbook?

[Optimystik]

Without being mean, Hideous Blow is terribad Use Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic) instead - you resolve your attacks as touch attacks, you have reach and you get iteratives. If you want to keep the Weapon Focus, ask your DM if you can just make it WF (Glaive) instead of WF (Longspear) and have it apply to your EG.

[CubeB]

I know Hideous Blow is Terribad. XD It's why I'm ditching it.

I have read the handbook. I think that going for Hellfire Warlock is probably my best bet. I think I'll go with that. :)

[mabriss lethe]

Here's one you could go for

Human Warlock 4
Invocations:
-Darkness
-Spiderwalk
-Eldritch Glaive

Feats: (all from drow of the underdark)
-Blend into shadows(burn darkness SLA for something similar to Hide in Plain Sight
-Fade into darkness (burn darkness SLA for a bonus to Hide checks for 10min/lvl
-Instinctive darkness (use darkness SLA as a swift action)

[sofawall]

I don't want to be uber optimized.. I want something, functional and fun to play. Not something that unbalances the game. (At least, not at more than a wizard does.)

Wait, you want something that doesn't break the game as much as a wizard? No worries there, mate.

[Jorda75]

I know Hideous Blow is Terribad. XD It's why I'm ditching it.

I have read the handbook. I think that going for Hellfire Warlock is probably my best bet. I think I'll go with that. :)

Hellfire warlock is too broken for my tastes :P

[PId6]

Hellfire warlock is too broken for my tastes :P

Why? It's one of the few ways to keep a warlock's damage relevant at higher levels. As long as you're not abusing it via Legacy Champion or something, I don't see what could be considered "broken" about it.

[CubeB]

Wait, you want something that doesn't break the game as much as a wizard? No worries there, mate.

...Actually, come to think of it, nothing breaks the game more than a Wizard.

...Except maybe two Wizards.

Anyway, I worked it out with my DM, and he's agreed to make thematic changes to the Hellfire Class to match the plot. So now it's "Shadowbound Warlock".

To Qualify, all I need to do is replace Tumble with Intimidate, and one of my Invocations with Hellrime Blast.

I'd like to keep Spiderwalk, if possible (though if you make a convincing argument, I'll ditch it). So that leaves me with 1 Least Invocation to change, and 3(!) Feats.

What do you think?

Oh, also, Baleful Utterance isn't allowed. Forgot to mention that.

[PId6]

One of the feats should definitely be Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest), to negate the Con damage from Hellfire (unless that's removed too?).

Spiderwalk is okay at lower levels, but it'll be completely outclassed once you get Fell Flight. Since your DM allows retraining though, you shouldn't have problems keeping it for now and trading it away at a later point.

See the Unseen is good. Beguiling Influence is useful for socialites. Darkness is good for combo given above. Eldritch Spear is always fun. Eldritch Glaive is a good investment for later, but it's not as great for a pure warlock.

[mabriss lethe]

One of the feats should definitely be Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest), to negate the Con damage from Hellfire (unless that's removed too?).

Spiderwalk is okay at lower levels, but it'll be completely outclassed once you get Fell Flight. Since your DM allows retraining though, you shouldn't have problems keeping it for now and trading it away at a later point.

See the Unseen is good. Beguiling Influence is useful for socialites. Darkness is good for combo given above. Eldritch Spear is always fun. Eldritch Glaive is a good investment for later, but it's not as great for a pure warlock.

Unfortunately it seems that Fell flight is out of the question, since as part of the campaign setting, he can't gain a fly speed. I'd keep spiderwalk for a while. maybe trade it out for something else once Flee the Scene is available.

[PId6]

Well, that'll learn me to read the OP better. Yeah, keep Spiderwalk then.

[CubeB]

Oh! Right! Another thing I forgot to mention.

My DM doesn't allow Incarnum. He says it hinges on the fact that Alignments are actual tangible concepts instead of loose guidelines.

So Shape Soulmeld is out.

For sure.

My DM, Quote, "thinks everything in that book is a big pile of alignment-dependent stupidity and bullcrap." Unquote.

And I'll just carry a wand of lesser restoration anyway. :P

Though any feats that can achieve a similar effect would be useful.

[mabriss lethe]

If I remember correctly, the strongheart vest/hellfire warlock trick is something of contested ground.

If possible pick up a level of Binder instead as well as the Improved Binding feat. It's worth it, doesn't douse your warlock progression much and gives you a host of "outside the box" abilities to draw from when not hellfire blasting. (tip: keep your vestige slot open until needed, then bind the appropriate vestige to the task.)

[CubeB]

If I remember correctly, the strongheart vest/hellfire warlock trick is something of contested ground.

If possible pick up a level of Binder instead as well as the Improved Binding feat. It's worth it, doesn't douse your warlock progression much and gives you a host of "outside the box" abilities to draw from when not hellfire blasting. (tip: keep your vestige slot open until needed, then bind the appropriate vestige to the task.)

As much as I'd like to do that, it's thematically forbidden.

According to my GM:

Warlock patrons won't allow their charges to stretch themselves thin by also allowing Vestiges into them, and Vestiges refuse to enter into someone who's soul is already tied up in a pact.

So that's out as well. Nice suggestion though.

Off the top of my head, these are the classes that are forbidden/hazardous for Warlock Multiclassing.

• Sorceror (Your soul will burn out within the decade.)
• Favored Soul (You have to have celestial ancestry)
• Binder (Vestiges don't like 'Lock soul.)
• Champion (It's allowed as a base class, but only Celestial creatures can form that particular pact.)

Any other class or PrC that forces me to make a pact with a being other than that Shadow Elemental I'm bound to is right out as well.

[Coidzor]

So no cleric, blackguard, or paladin variants there either then. No druids or variants aligned with any deities... No PrCs that involve oaths then, unless they can get tied to that shadow patron.

Likely no familiars or animal companions anyway even if they weren't ACF'd away...

Hm. Maybe psionics, but I'm not sure what you might want from there.

Hmm. Undead heavy campaign. Dread Necromancer dip, maybe. Nah, probably not worth it for just distracting/stealing a couple of mooks/trap-springers.

[CubeB]

So no cleric, blackguard, or paladin variants there either then. No druids or variants aligned with any deities... No PrCs that involve oaths then, unless they can get tied to that shadow patron.

Likely no familiars or animal companions anyway even if they weren't ACF'd away...

Hm. Maybe psionics, but I'm not sure what you might want from there.

Hmm. Undead heavy campaign. Dread Necromancer dip, maybe. Nah, probably not worth it for just distracting/stealing a couple of mooks/trap-springers.

Oh, all divine classes aside from Favored Soul are allowed. Divine Magic is based on faith. Arcane Magic is based on study (Or having a bit of a magical race in you) and Psionics are based on willpower.
I think I'll just go straight warlock -> Hellfire.

[The Shadowmind]

While this prestige class is horrible, there is the Enlightened spirit PrC class in Complete Mage, requires good aligned, 8 ranks in knowledge planes, but a one level dip gives you, Aura of Courage (as the paladin ability), Aura of Menace (as the (Archon's ability), and a Spirit blast, extra damage to undead and no incorporeal miss chance.

[PId6]

Hellfire Warlock is not worthwhile unless you've a way to easily negate the Con damage. Wand of Lesser Restoration is way too much of a hassle and isn't really worth it.

Your DM is putting up too many limitations to make a pure Warlock viable. Your best bet now is to either go Eldritch Disciple or become some kind of Glaivelock. Eldritch Disciple is best done using Ur Priest, but a Cleric build is doable too. Glaivelock would just be mostly melee classes and dips along with a level of Warlock for Eldritch Glaive.