[3.5] What's so bad about the Healer?

[Scorpina]

I've heard a lot about how the Healer is lame. Looking through it, I'm not exactly sure what's so bad about it. Why is the Healer a bad choice of class?

[Person_Man]

Here you go. Also, I think there's a handbook on Brilliant Gameologist, but I'm blocked at work.

[Scorpina]

Thanks, that's a very interesting thread!

[Keld Denar]

It generally comes down to action advantage. If you aren't undoing as much as your foes are doing, you should probably be investing time, effort, and resources to killing or disabling your foe.

Some cases, healing is ok, such as with the HEAL spell, because it can outstrip the badguys damage, but in most cases its best to just wait till after combat to heal up.

[Reynard]

I think one of reasons is that it lacks the clerics ability to spontaneously cast the Cure X Wounds spells.

[Akal Saris]

See my sig for the handbook.

A lot of what it comes down to is that when you're looking at divine casters, the Cleric, Druid, and Archivist are so good. They're 3 of the top 5 classes in the game, and there's practically nothing that a Healer can offer that tops their flexible spell lists (cleric/archivist) or excellent class features (druid).

The Healer's weak point is its tiny spell list. With a little adjustment, like adding the recommended Spell Compendium spells to its list or adding the BoED spells a Healer gets, the Healer is fine without being overpowered, much like the Dread Necromancer or Beguiler.

Just my opinion (and as the guide writer I'm both informed and biased, I suppose), but I think the healer is better than most people give it credit for, as long as you play intelligently. Out of the box and with 1-2 extra sources, it's better than the monk or samurai or most "T4" classes, and this is something that I've argued with JaronK over before.

A lot comes down to playstyle however - a Healer will be useful in a low damage game (since healing will keep up with damage) or a game that has a lot of status effect attacks like fears, poisons, level drain, and paralysis.

[sonofzeal]

It generally comes down to action advantage. If you aren't undoing as much as your foes are doing, you should probably be investing time, effort, and resources to killing or disabling your foe.

Some cases, healing is ok, such as with the HEAL spell, because it can outstrip the badguys damage, but in most cases its best to just wait till after combat to heal up.

Actually, the Healer is a bit of an exception to the rule of thumb in that category - pump Cha significantly on top of the Augment Healing feat, and you can often undo an enemy full-attack with a Cure Serious, and undo an enemy Fireball with a Mass Cure Light. And by mid level you can pretty much cancel out any negative status affliction ever.

Unfortunately, it generally costs you more resources for you to undo something than it costs for an enemy to do it in the first place. Either you can undo everything, or you can conserve resources and be able to top people up through most of the day, but rarely both.

Still, I've played a Healer and it worked really well. It was a low-combat game, which helped, and we pulled a few small houserules (casting based on Cha, expanded spell-list from SC and other sources) and that helped too. My experience, then, probably wasn't typical. But the presence of my Healer turned a lot of really dangerous fights into pushovers. Actually, come to think of it, I don't think there was a single fight she was there for that didn't quickly resolve in the PCs favour. Part of that was luck, part was diplomacy, and part was her just being seriously impressive at healing.

[Vaynor]

I think if their spell list were expanded even slightly to have at least a few offensive spells in there, and they were allowed to cast spontaneously, they would be a pretty good class.

Edit: Is there a feat like Arcane Disciple for divine spellcasters? If not, why can only arcane spellcasting classes gain domains with feats? Seems a bit silly that divine spellcasters can't gain domain spells as well.

[gbprime]

Assuming you accept the need and the role for a dedicated healer, the Healer class needs two things to be truly capable.

First, you have to spend a feat on Spontaneous Healer, so you can spontaneously cast the healing spells that are your bread and butter while still maintaining a useful toolkit of anti-poison and stat-healing spells. Were this a feature of the class, we would all be happier with it.

Second, the Healer needs a better spell selection. You need to acquire domains or bonus spells through prestige classes to be able to do something OTHER than healing people, and you need a generous DM to add the new healing spells in Spell Compendium, PHB2, and other sources to improve the class' repertoire.

In all, it makes a fantastic NPC healbot, but a weak PC.

[Greenish]

Just my opinion (and as the guide writer I'm both informed and biased, I suppose), but I think the healer is better than most people give it credit for, as long as you play intelligently. Out of the box and with 1-2 extra sources, it's better than the monk or samurai or most "T4" classes, and this is something that I've argued with JaronK over before.

But isn't it a bit of an one-trick pony for tier 3, at least without expanding the spell list?

[Edit]: Oh, it's in tier 5 on the list.

[sonofzeal]

Recommended expanded Healer spell list....

Spoiler

Show

lvl0:
Create Water
Cure Minor
Dawn
Deathwatch
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Light
Mending
Naturewatch
Purify Food and Drink
Read Magic
Analyze Fertility
Detect Pregnancy

LVL1:
Bless Water
Buoyant Lifting
Cure Light Wounds
Deep Breath
Delay Disease
Faith Healing
Goodberry
Healthful Rest
Ironguts
Omen of Peril
Protection from Evil
Remove Fear
Remove Paralysis
Resist Planar Alignment
Resurgence
Sanctuary
Speak with Animals
Vigor, Lesser
Block the Seed
Find a Soulmate
Pleasant Dreams
Share Sensation


LVL2
Avoid Planar Effects
Calm Emotions
Cure Moderate
Delay Poison
Ease Pain
Easy Trail
Estanna's Stew
Gentle Repose
Healing Lorecall
Remove Addiction
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Disease
Restoration, Lesser
Stabilize
Summon Elysian Thrush
Detect Disease
Magic Probe
Mantle of Love
Resist Temptation
Touch Me No

LVL3
Close Wounds
Create Food and Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Heart's Ease
Neutralize Poison
Refreshment
Remove Nausea
Remove Curse
Restoration
Resurgence, Mass
Safety
Status
Vigor
Vigor, Mass Lesser
Analyze Ancestry
Healing Sphere
Innocence of the Virgin
Lifebond


lvl4:
Astral Hospice
Blood of the Martyr
Cure Critical Wounds
Death Ward
Delay Death
Freedom of Movement
Greater Status
Land Womb
Mass Cure Light Wounds
Panacea
Planar Tolerance
Positive Energy Aura
Remove Fatigue
Sheltered Vitality
Sustain
Blessed Seed
Impotency
Succor


lvl5:
Atonement
Break Enchantment
Dance of the Unicorn
Energetic Healing
Heal Animal Companion
Life's Grace
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Raise Dead
Rejuvenation Cocoon
Revivify
Sacred Guardian
Sanctuary, Mass
Stone to Flesh
True Seeing
Vigor, Greater
Warding Gems
Hedonist's Delight
Life Shell
Magic Status
Mind to Mind
Sanctuary, Mass


lvl6:
Energy Immunity
Greater Restoration
Heal
Heroes' Feast
Mass Cure Serious Wounds
Regenerate
Renewal Pact
Revive Outsider
Valiant Steed
Vigorous Circle
Kiss of Life


lvl7
Fortunate Fate
Mass Cure Critical Wounds
Repulsion
Restoration, Mass
Resurrection
Peace Aura
Shadow Life


lvl8
Cocoon
Discern Location
Holy Aura
Mass Heal
Spread of Contentment
Invigorate


lvl9
Foresight
Gate
Sanctify the Wicked
Sublime Revelry
True Ressurection
Youth's Beauty

Sources: Spell Compendium, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Erotic Fantasy (yes, really, it's got a lot of great Healer spells)

[gbprime]

Book of Erotic Fantasy (yes, really, it's got a lot of great Healer spells)

Not a lot of people use that book.

But I've had a couple players want to use the Disciple of Aaluran PrC, just because it's so awesome for Sorcerer (since you qualify for it after level 2). They backed off though once I asked whether they were comfortable with playing the PrC as written.

[Gametime]

The Healer is just fine at healing, even without the obvious additions to its spell list. Since the Spell Compendium does tell you to add healing and restorative spells to its list, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

Even once you do that, though, you're left with a character who can't do much other than heal. That's fine for a lot of games, but the lack of offensive power can be a drag at times.

If you really just want a class to heal, though (and with a name like "Healer," there's not much else to expect), the Healer is your man. Also, it gets major coolness points for riding a Unicorn.

[Nero24200]

Just my opinion (and as the guide writer I'm both informed and biased, I suppose), but I think the healer is better than most people give it credit for, as long as you play intelligently. Out of the box and with 1-2 extra sources, it's better than the monk or samurai or most "T4" classes, and this is something that I've argued with JaronK over before.

Er...actually, Monks are Tier 5, and I beleive Samurai are Tier 6. Tier 4 is described at being at least reasonably good at a particular niche, even if awful in other areas.

For this reason alone, it's hard to justify a Tier 3 Healer, since it requires the healer class to do more than heal. Unfrotunately, as far as healing goes, the healer is quite bad. Firstly, it has to prepere it's spells. Beguiler, Dread Necromancer and Warmage all have spontainious casting, class features, and more spells known than a sorcerer (making them effectively more powerful than a sorcerer). So what makes them "weaker" than it? Three words - Limited Spell Selection.

However, the healer has the worst of all worlds. It has a limited spell list and prepered spell casting, two that never go together (at least with regards to full casting classes). It doesn't even get an "Advanced Knowledge" class feature.

The spells intended to work well for the healer (I.E healing spells) can be used more effectively by other classes - in fact, a good aligned cleric can spontainiously convert spells to healing on the fly (this is even worse in PF, where clerics can Channel Energy for extra healing).

The healer has only a handful of advantages

• There are a handful of juicy spells on their list. Though this could also be considered a drawback, since you'll find that every healer seems to have to the same spells prepered.
• The Unicron companion. Though this doesn't kick in till 8th level, so for low-to-mid campaigns it's not a real advantage.
• Some spell-like abilities. True Resurection as a spell-like ability is quite nice. However note that alot of these come late - to the point that you'll be casting them as actual spells before you get them, so having them isn't that great unless they have costly components (like True Ressurection).

To make the healer more effective at it's role and raise it up to Tier 3, it'll need the following in my honest opinion.

• A more varied spell list - Do more than just heal, it's prefectly resonable for a Healer to also have a fair number of Abjuration spells. Maybe even a few "Healer only" niche spells. An alternative might even be non-lethal spells such as Hold Person or Sleep, or a fair bundle of anti-undead spells. Allowing them to do more than just heal (despite being healers) is a good way to raise flexability and make a class more attractive. It could also serve to make healers different from each other (since you could have some that focus exclusively on healing, some that focus on defense, some that focus on hunting undead etc).
• Spontainious casting - Beguiler and Dread Necormancer work well as non-core spellcasters. They're reasonably balanced, strong enough in their niche, but flexable out-with their niche without being too powerful. Like the healer they have a limited spell list, but they have the advantage of spontainious casting - it's not unreasonable for the healer to have the same if it's going to be restricted.
• Advanced learning or something along those lines - If someone homebrews a healing spell, even if it's not going to be on the healer's list it makes sense for a healer to have some degree of access.
• Tweek some class features Give them a little more than spell-like abilities. Giving them things like the ability to cast touch spells at range would be a fantastic start, especially considering that alot of healing spells are touch.

[Gametime]

Not a lot of people use that book.

But I've had a couple players want to use the Disciple of Aaluran PrC, just because it's so awesome for Sorcerer (since you qualify for it after level 2). They backed off though once I asked whether they were comfortable with playing the PrC as written.

Special: The character must willingly give sexual favors to at least a dozen people, without expecting anything in return or taking advantage of them in any way.

That must've been a pretty exciting first level.

[Optimystik]

That must've been a pretty exciting first level.

Beats the hell out of chasing gnolls around, I say.

[sonofzeal]

Not a lot of people use that book.

But I've had a couple players want to use the Disciple of Aaluran PrC, just because it's so awesome for Sorcerer (since you qualify for it after level 2). They backed off though once I asked whether they were comfortable with playing the PrC as written.

Be that as it may, the Magic section really is kind to Healers. Fully 30 of the spells off that list I just posted were from BoEF. I'd highly recommend it to anyone seriously looking to play one.

[gbprime]

That must've been a pretty exciting first level.

Lots of non-combat encounters, I would imagine.

Precisely why it didn't happen. "Magical whore" is not a concept most people want to run with, nor does it work for most roleplaying groups. Ours stops at PG-13, and that PrC sort of STARTS there.

[Gametime]

For this reason alone, it's hard to justify a Tier 3 Healer, since it requires the healer class to do more than heal. Unfrotunately, as far as healing goes, the healer is quite bad. Firstly, it has to prepere it's spells. Beguiler, Dread Necromancer and Warmage all have spontainious casting, class features, and more spells known than a sorcerer (making them effectively more powerful than a sorcerer). So what makes them "weaker" than it? Three words - Limited Spell Selection.

A healer heals more than a cleric because they add their charisma modifier to the amount healed. Since you only need a wisdom of 19, you can pump charisma to make your heals land for pretty awesome amounts. Assuming it applies to the Vigor line of spells (and assuming you add those spells to the Healer's list, which is a pretty obvious choice), they can give the party ridiculous fast healing.

As for spell selection, they don't have enough diversity to worry about not having the right spells prepared. A few status healing spells, maybe a wand or two of lesser restoration to cover your bases, and fill the rest with Vigor and Cure spells. It's not complicated.

The problem with the Healer isn't that it can't heal, or even that it can't heal as well as other classes. It's that it can't do anything else.

Beats the hell out of chasing gnolls around, I say.

...Man, now I can't get out of my head the idea of an adventure that involves both, if you know what I mean.

[Jorda75]

Healer isn't bad but you have to get into a PRC that offers you some other options eventually. Healer is great for making your healing spells more effective and allows you to use lower level spells for healing and save your higher slots for more powerful magic.

[Sinfonian]

2. The Unicron companion.

I agree with most all of what you say in your post, and don't really want to mar the good post over a single typo. However, I just had to point out just how awesome such a thing would be.

[Fax Celestis]

A healer heals more than a cleric because they add their charisma modifier to the amount healed. Since you only need a wisdom of 19, you can pump charisma to make your heals land for pretty awesome amounts. Assuming it applies to the Vigor line of spells (and assuming you add those spells to the Healer's list, which is a pretty obvious choice), they can give the party ridiculous fast healing.

Take a page from Giacomo and cross-class UMD to take advantage of that Cha mod. Also, Healer into Combat Medic makes an okay buffer, particularly if your DM (like mine) is reasonable about the Combat Medic's Healing Kicker feature and makes it not limited in uses-per-day.

[Nero24200]

I agree with most all of what you say in your post, and don't really want to mar the good post over a single typo. However, I just had to point out just how awesome such a thing would be.

Edited the typo out. Though granted, the class would be alot more bad-ass if it had Unicron from Transformers as it's companion.

[Gametime]

I agree with most all of what you say in your post, and don't really want to mar the good post over a single typo. However, I just had to point out just how awesome such a thing would be.

I'm pretty sure having a Unicron companion would make the Healer at least Tier 2.

[Kantolin]

I agree with various people in that it's not quite as bad as people make it out to be, but it's pretty bad.

The largest irritation to me is, indeed, the inability to spontaneously cast cure spells.

But! If you take Augment Healing and Magic of the Land, and especially if you blanket-allow the healer to take the various unusual healing spells from other books which help that combo work better (For example, Darts of Life from the Complete Champion is one of the best healing spells in the game if you have augments on your healing), then they can heal for plenty in middle-optimization games.

The irritation there, however, is that if you do the same thing with a cleric you do about the same healing. My healing-focused cloistered cleric could bring anyone in the party from dying to fully healed or close to it with a healing spell, which makes the healer's perk hardly one.

And then the healer doesn't get /buffs/, so they're generally not as good of a healer as the cleric, which is bleh.

Unicorn helps, though. And a healer sitting on the Book of Exalted Deeds spells is definitely helpful.

I imagine playing one would have the same focuses as a shugenja - prestige for turning, prestige for domains, prestige prestige.

[Optimystik]

I imagine playing one would have the same focuses as a shugenja - prestige for turning, prestige for domains, prestige prestige.

What's sad and hilarious at the same time, is that even an Order of the Gentle Rain Water Shugenja can do things besides heal. (No Gate though.)

[Gnaeus]

A healer heals more than a cleric because they add their charisma modifier to the amount healed. Since you only need a wisdom of 19, you can pump charisma to make your heals land for pretty awesome amounts. Assuming it applies to the Vigor line of spells (and assuming you add those spells to the Healer's list, which is a pretty obvious choice), they can give the party ridiculous fast healing.

A cleric focused on healing beats a healer focused on healing.

The cleric can DMM Persist Mass Lesser Vigor, for free, 100% out of combat healing all day. The Healer has no turn attempts, and doesn't have the vigor line unless you houserule it.

The cleric can take Healing domain, for +1 healing caster level, + Imbued Healing metamagic (which healers can't take because they have no domains.) That gives temporary HP = to the targets level or HD to the target of any heals. That means that at level 9, the Healers Mass CLW heals 1d8+9+Cha Mod, and the Cleric's Mass CLW effectively heals 1d8+10+Average Party level. Assuming APL 9, that means that at level 9 the cleric has an advantage unless the healer has a 30 charisma.

[JaronK]

The biggest issue with the healer is that what it's good at (in combat healing) is not something that's actually very good. It's much like Monks with their incredible ground movement speed. Yes, that's cool, and yes, they're one of the best at it... but who cares? There are many encounters that can be solved with "this is the best at dealing damage quickly" or "this is the best at killing in the first round" or even "this is the best at being undetectable" which is why classes that specialize in those things, like Barbarians are decent (T4). But in combat healing is generally a waste of actions, while out of combat healing is done far better by other classes (DMM Clerics using Persistant Lesser Mass Vigor, Binders binding Buer, Crusaders with Martial Stance, Dread Necromancers in a party with Tomb Tainted Souls or undead, etc). This is why the Healer is down there with the Monk in T5... what they specialize in just isn't that important.

Eventually in combat healing can be useful when it actually heals more than the damage attacks do... but that's not until Heal becomes available, and Clerics get that too. It's also useful if you do something else along with the heals, but that's what Crusaders do, not what Healers do. Dread Necromancers and Wizards can do it via Necrosis Carnexes, but Healers get nothing like that either.

If you give them the full Vigor line of spells it's helpful, but still not much. What they really need is the ability to do preventative healing so they are ahead of the action game and can be proactive in their protection, as well as easy to get free all day out of combat healing.

Various house rules I've considered for healers have included saying that when a healer heals more hitpoints than the target has, the target gets that many temporary hitpoints that last a number of minutes equal to the level of the spell (allowing the healer to pre heal the party before a big encounter) and letting the healer heal half their healer level + cha mod in hit points as a standard action touch at will. Giving them spells like Recitation would help a lot too.

JaronK

[Tinydwarfman]

Healers are good at their niche - healing. Unfortunately, healing is just terrible normally, and a horrible niche to specialize in. In most games you don't even need someone who can cast healing spells as long as you can use UMD.

[Gametime]

A cleric focused on healing beats a healer focused on healing.

The cleric can DMM Persist Mass Lesser Vigor, for free, 100% out of combat healing all day. The Healer has no turn attempts, and doesn't have the vigor line unless you houserule it.

It should probably carry a little more weight than a houserule, considering that the Spell Compendium explicitly tells you to add healing spells to the Healer's list, but I'll allow it's not RAW. Considering that we're discussing the applications of the Healer in play, and it's an entirely reasonable call, I think it's fair to include it, but it's not really necessary.

Out-of-combat healing is effectively trivial. Persisted Lesser Vigor is one of the better ways, but a wand of cure light wounds is practically as good. So is a healing belt. Arguably, the gold cost of those things is more negligible than the Turn costs of Persisting Mass Lesser Vigor, which could be better spent on a more useful buff.

The Healer has almost nothing to do with his spells except heal. Healing isn't useful, beyond a certain point; if you're all at full health, you don't need healing. I'd be surprised to see a party that needed more healing, in a standard day of adventuring, than a Healer can provide using all his spell slots (and maybe a magic item or two). So, no, I don't think the Healer is worse at healing just because there are other ways to get to full health out of combat, since he still provides all the healing the party could ever need.

The cleric can take Healing domain, for +1 healing caster level, + Imbued Healing metamagic (which healers can't take because they have no domains.) That gives temporary HP = to the targets level or HD to the target of any heals. That means that at level 9, the Healers Mass CLW heals 1d8+9+Cha Mod, and the Cleric's Mass CLW effectively heals 1d8+10+Average Party level. Assuming APL 9, that means that at level 9 the cleric has an advantage unless the healer has a 30 charisma.

True, although worth caveating in that the Healer can access domains through, say, Contemplative. It'll take a bit longer to get Imbued Healing online, but once you do you've got the temporary hit points and the charisma bonus. The Healer goes back to being best at in-combat healing (which, admittedly, isn't a hugely useful niche).

Again, the Cleric is a far, far better class than the Healer, but that's because the Cleric has better things to do with his spell slots than burn them all on healing. The Healer really doesn't, but if you want someone to just heal, all day, then the Healer is a fine choice.