(3.5)Polymorph and templates

**Ilmryn** · 2010-06-22, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)

How does polymorph work with templated monsters? Can you polymorph into, lets say... a half-dragon hydra?
Is there any published rule/errata on polymorph and templates? If you know one, please post the link.

**Jack_Simth** · 2010-06-22, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)

Well, per The Polymorph Spell Description, the "spell functions like alter self" with some changes. Per the Alter Self Spell Description, "You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype."

Nothing in the Polymorph spell description overrides the clause from Alter Self, so the answer is: No, you can't take on the form of a critter with a template. So that half-dragon aristocrat is really hard to impersonate.

**PId6** · 2010-06-22, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)

Besides, if you could, there's no reason why you can't stack every template known to man onto your polymorphed creature, since non-lycanthropic templates don't add HD.

**Grumman** · 2010-06-22, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)

Two words: Paragon Template.

The last thing Polymorph needs is a power-up.

**Ilmryn** · 2010-06-23, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by PId6

Besides, if you could, there's no reason why you can't stack every template known to man onto your polymorphed creature, since non-lycanthropic templates don't add HD.

Exactly. That was my plan.
Oh well, if it doesen't work, then it doesn't work. However, will Shapechange let you use a template?

**The Glyphstone** · 2010-06-23, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)

Nope, Shapechange is also 'as polymorph'.

Incidentally, I need more sleep, because I looked at the thread topic and thought it said "Polymorph and tentacles".

**Ilmryn** · 2010-06-23, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone

Nope, Shapechange is also 'as polymorph'.

One more question: Will wild shape let you use templates? What about Polymorph any object? If these dont work, is there any spell that will let you use templates?

**Theodoxus** · 2010-06-23, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)

Conversely, will a template like Feral, persist through the polymorph schools, wild shape (or shapeshift), etc?

**Sliver** · 2010-06-23, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Ilmryn

One more question: Will wild shape let you use templates? What about Polymorph any object? If these dont work, is there any spell that will let you use templates?

Wild shape works like alternate form:

A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template.

PAO works like polymorph and doesn't mention templates.

You really want to just break everything even more huh?

**Ilmryn** · 2010-06-23, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Sliver

Wild shape works like alternate form:

PAO works like polymorph and doesn't mention templates.

You really want to just break everything even more huh?

Oh, well, i give up. There are just too many tempaltes for this to work. Maybe I'll get my DM to houserule something. Do you think the LA of the templates would be reasonable? So a half-dragon moster with 8 HD would count as having 11 HD for the purpose of polymorphing. Polymorph is less broken now than it was in 3.0...with 3.0 polymorph the only restriction was size, so you could go dragon-kin paragon pseudonatural balor without a problem

, except of course that you squish anything in your path...

**Lord Vukodlak** · 2010-06-23, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Ilmryn

One more question: Will wild shape let you use templates? What about Polymorph any object? If these dont work, is there any spell that will let you use templates?

Wild Shape? No
Polymorph any object: Hell no

Animate dead you use the skeleton and zombie templates, I can recall a spell that curses someone with lycanthropy but that may have been 3.0. Vile Death gives an undead the fiendish template.
From Savage Species there was the Incarnate Construct template used via a spell to turn a golem into a true living creature.

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