Creating Debit Cards in DnD!

[gallagher]

so i have been thinking, adventurers amass large quantities of money, and that money can get heavy. so heavy in fact that if one pays attention to the size and weight of it, they need to actually purchase bags of holding simply to carry it.

imagine that, paying money to carry money! in the real world, spending large sums of money so that you can carry your money is obscene. which got me to thinking. what if, in DnD, i started a bank with a reliable system of transferring money? i have never heard of it before, and google didnt produce any reliable hits, so i am assuming that if it has, nobody bothered bragging about it.

so how would one make a reliable debit card system? i cant think of a spell outside of message that would produce such a thing. how would money get transferred (because i want them to actually have gold, not just work based off credit, thus leading to a large portion of the population going deeper into debt). i can, in my sleep deprived state, only think of one way. Wizards!

so far, i have thought up having wizards cast Message to each banking facility. the debit card also will have a per-day ability to cast message, so that it can message the bank how much money it needs transferred, and the location can be set on the card so that a message can be returned with a statement of whether or not the payment can be made based on the actual amount of money they have. there can also be a place in every major town where one can check to see how much they have before spending, so that they can avoid the embarrassment of not having enough to buy something. then there needs to be some sort of way of transferring the money itself. i assume that it would be okay to have the wizard teleport from town to town and distribute the wealth that was spent, but i was hoping for a less consuming spell would be appropriate. that is the main stick in my plan

also, the banks can be guarded on a few levels from thieves (and the local thieves guild). have a couple of Crusaders for security, a cleric or two, a blaster caster and maybe a bard for entertainment.

i thought of having it guarded by a dragon, but that caused me to think that maybe it isnt a good idea to have other peoples wealth guarded by a creature that only wants it for itself.

so is this idea feasible? say that i only charge a minimal fee, and that i, being the PC who started the whole thing, gained some money this way instead of actually having to earn it like the bard using his perform check... would it affect alignment, or would it be seen as a smart business plan? and how would i make it easier to transport money?

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

So every note you issue (in the form of customized use-activated items of Message in this case) is fully backed by gold/plat/astral diamonds, which eliminates bank run issues. That said, with large enough reserves you need more and more powerful protection that might make your costs prohibitive.

[SethFahad]

I've already done that in my campaign (more for safe keeping). Take a look at this thread. I've used the same mechanics, sending gems (instead of stones) + gem jump spell + bags of tithing.

[Serpentine]

edit @^: I liked my last idea

i thought of having it guarded by a dragon, but that caused me to think that maybe it isnt a good idea to have other peoples wealth guarded by a creature that only wants it for itself.

As opposed to real-life banks?
Actually, I love the idea of a dragon-banker. I think I'll throw this into my campaign.
I don't think you need to think too much into the details of the type of magic. "These rich moneylenders developed a special magical system whereby you tell your moneycard how much you want, and the amount appears in your hand."
To make it more fantasyey, I'd probably make it a little moneybag. You might even have to write down the amount you want and put it in there, so the bank at the other end has a sort of receipt or record of it. You could also have it keyed to a particular voice or handwriting or secret word or something for security.

[gallagher]

edit @^: I liked my last idea As opposed to real-life banks?
Actually, I love the idea of a dragon-banker. I think I'll throw this into my campaign.
I don't think you need to think too much into the details of the type of magic. "These rich moneylenders developed a special magical system whereby you tell your moneycard how much you want, and the amount appears in your hand."
To make it more fantasyey, I'd probably make it a little moneybag. You might even have to write down the amount you want and put it in there, so the bank at the other end has a sort of receipt or record of it. You could also have it keyed to a particular voice or handwriting or secret word or something for security.

oh wait! have it run by an epic druid who has a dragon as a cohort. then, have the coding be kept in druidic, since only druids know it, and therefor no rogue can decode it! brilliant!

[Simba]

The Eberron setting actually has a banking system, the Dwarves of House Kundarak run it quite successfully.

[Serpentine]

In my game, the Gnomes are sort of the (medieval historically speaking) "Jews" of this world - mistrusted money lenders who are sort of at the fringe of the society while still wielding a lot of power. I may say they have the backing of one or more dragons, or that there's a rival banking business being set up. Probably be a good place to put the Dragons of the Great Game...

As an aside: why does my shared office smell like someone farted, even though I'm the only one here and it wasn't me?

[veovius]

As an aside: why does my shared office smell like someone farted, even though I'm the only one here and it wasn't me?

Completely offtopic, but that, good lady, is quote-worthy .

(edit for gender <.<)

[Serpentine]

You're welcome to it if you want it, ma'am

[gallagher]

As an aside: why does my shared office smell like someone farted, even though I'm the only one here and it wasn't me?

your office farted. its ok, it happens to me all the time.

or it was your animal companion. i have learned to blame it on my animal companion. it doesnt work if it is a raven, as they speak common

[Serpentine]

*glares suspiciously at little dragon figurines*

[Balain]

A more historical way of doing it is like the medici family. If my memory is right, the medici family would give lines of credit. A document you could carry, that basiclly said "This note is good for 10,000 Francs, or what ever currency was needed. Less stuff for a player to carry and no need for the player to worry about the bank secruity they just need to make sure no one steals the piece of paper they are carrying around on them.

[gallagher]

A more historical way of doing it is like the medici family. If my memory is right, the medici family would give lines of credit. A document you could carry, that basiclly said "This note is good for 10,000 Francs, or what ever currency was needed. Less stuff for a player to carry and no need for the player to worry about the bank secruity they just need to make sure no one steals the piece of paper they are carrying around on them.

that makes it severely less magical, much more practical, and therefor i dont like it.

all joking aside, that is a good idea. as much as i would like to use it, though, i am trying to make a banking system in a game that i am not running. we are about to set up in a town after killing alot of things, sentient and otherwise, and i think that a good investment would be for other people to invest in us.

plus, it is an all-evil campaign. this way i can steal it all later.

[Heliomance]

You'd ned Sending, not Message. Message is line-of-sight only.

[Lord Vukodlak]

My setting uses the currency Chrysm which is a magicallly but naturally growing crystal that serves as one of the primary raw materials for magic items

Different grades and colors are required by different items. Wand's, staves, scrolls spellbook ink all require some degree of refined Chrysm. The greater the refinement the greater the value.

A bar of chrysm could be worth anywhere between 1,000 and 50,000gp depending on the degree of refinement and weight.

[Thiyr]

Personally, I like Ptolus's mage coins. A triangular glass coin worth 100gp. The last person to touch one can mentally summon it to their hand. I'd just add the stipulation that you've got to be on the same plane as the coin, but other than that, it works pretty well. Bit more convinient than a debit card, though it means you need to protect your money yourself.

[Doc Roc]

Our solution was to make diamond dust the currency of choice, but it's not really what you want. It does have the advantage of being an integral commodity, and always insuring that material components are available for a valuable subset of spells. Because its worth is abstract, based on purity and suitability for arcane uses, we were in a position to simply suggest that it was however light we needed it to be. One could pretty comfortably move from carrying the diamond dust to instead guaranteeing a number of resurrections at a reputable church, thus centralizing the backing element. In a mageocracy, proof of identity can be established by dismissing a long-term spell effect you created. Unfortunately, a computationally secure solution is impossible, because it's possible to build infinitely fast computers in D&D, or use divination as a sort of turing oracle, so the usual public-private encryption-as-identification solutions aren't viable. Worse, spells like mind rape mean that most passwords can be coerced out with sufficient determination.

If you'd like, I can give it some serious thought. Can arcane marks be forged?

[arguskos]

I liked the Planescape method: introduce more valuable currencies, like the Sigil Torus and the Sigil Moebius. Above those you get things like Soul Cages and whatnot.

[Grumman]

Our solution was to make diamond dust the currency of choice, but it's not really what you want. It does have the advantage of being an integral commodity, and always insuring that material components are available for a valuable subset of spells. Because its worth is abstract, based on purity and suitability for arcane uses, we were in a position to simply suggest that it was however light we needed it to be. One could pretty comfortably move from carrying the diamond dust to instead guaranteeing a number of resurrections at a reputable church, thus centralizing the backing element.

I was just about to suggest something similar: scrolls of Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection. The XP component makes up less than 10% of the value of the scroll, they're harder to fake in a convincing manner as they've already been processed into magical items, and they're inherently useful, meaning you can trade them to anyone, even if they don't trust the reputation or solvency of the bank.

[gorfnab]

I once played in a campaign where the characters had Adventurer Traveling Monetary cards.

[Quincunx]

Spellscrip, utility spells written with the backing of an organization and redeemable for gold at full value at said organization's chapters, came up in a discussion of alternate currencies, but it doesn't quite fulfill the "cash + teleportation system" paradigm of a debit card.

I like 'gem jump' and Druidic as the unfathomable language of commerce. Heck, I enjoy the idea of the banker druid as protector of the greenbelt; somehow every adventuring party which might cross it and create a mess can't seem to find important_travel_item_01 for sale anywhere, finds the prices for beasts of burden inflated out of reach. . .

[Heliomance]

Of course, if you implement this, you need to have the originating country be called Yendor.

[SethFahad]

Our solution was to make diamond dust the currency of choice.

"Here is you payment!" {hands over a small pouch full of diamond dust}
"Oh, thank you" {opens pouch} "Is it all here?"
"Want to find out?"
"Like how??? Count diamond dust particles??? "
"No silly! Weigh the pouch!"
"Oh-oh...right! Hey, wait a minute something...what is that...? {peers closer to the pouch} "a...a...aaaaaaaaaachuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmm!!!! "
"oh no...."

[sdream]

Given the prevalance of diamonds as essential spell components, my world has alchemy as the fluid economy preserver stepping up from base materials to more precious materials (or back whatever is needed) all in easy to calculate factors of 10.

Base metals like copper can be transmuted into silver/iron
Silver/iron can be transmuted into gold
gold can be transmuted into mithril/adamantium
mithril/adamantium can be transmuted into diamond
(all gems are alchemically dyed diamonds, a diamond "coin" is worth 100gp)
Diamonds can be transmuted into spellgems, 1000gp for a spellcoin (enough to refresh a level one spell, see pearl of power).

Since diamonds have a direct mystical connection with magic, almost anyone can test for purity and size of a gem by channeling magic (see use magic device) and watching the speed the glow fades - a spellcoin's glow does not fade if it is at full 100gp size.

Since making a magical item which mimics this property (and the toughness of diamond) is more expensive than 100gp of diamonds the system enforces itself fairly well, and a small bag of 1000gp magic gems is more wealth than most need to carry, even to go shopping for high end items.

[Bigbrother87]

In Conor Kostick's book, Epic, all about a world that runs its Justice system and economy through an MMO, he uses an interesting banking system for large amounts of coin.

Obviously, you can't carry around carts of gold, so the gold is protected by the bank, and the bank binds a weak ethereal spirit to you. You can call up the spirit and tell it to have the bank send X amount of gold to the shop keeper, and the spirits flies off to get it done.

In the book, they're limited to only nine times of doing this, but obviously if this method is used that can be changed as needed.

[Draz74]

I was just about to suggest something similar: scrolls of Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection. The XP component makes up less than 10% of the value of the scroll, they're harder to fake in a convincing manner as they've already been processed into magical items, and they're inherently useful, meaning you can trade them to anyone, even if they don't trust the reputation or solvency of the bank.

That ... actually sounds exceedingly practical and believable.

[Siosilvar]

Banks could give out secret chests... simply create a CL10 chest and give the miniature to the customer. They can now recall around 600,000gp or 650,000pp as a standard action. That should be enough storage, just don't lose the chest!

Oh, and those amounts will be lower for loose coins instead of solid metal.

EDIT: Cost for the spell and chest is 5550gp. Depending on amount of gold you intend to store, the bank could make plenty of cash by charging 5-10% of the stored money for the convenience.

[graeylin]

perhaps modify a Handy Haversack so that two people can reach into it and remove items... make it a tiny money pouch (as suggested earlier, small volume capacity), and you can put money into it. Somewhere in the world, you have contracted with a banker/clerk who also has access to your pouch (magically, this pouch exists in two locations). He periodically reaches in, withdraws your fortune, and stores it in a big huge haversack (greater volume capacity) keyed to himself and you (and a bank manager, auditor, etc.). You have a contract that the banker withdraw X times a day, and leaves X amount in the bag (for your daily incidentals). you put money in, it goes into your account, and when you need a big withdrawl (for that staff of power), you go to a branch, and they can check your account total (via sending?), and get that to you in media that has proper value. or perhaps you simply put a note in the pouch, telling the banker to place X amount in the next time. like a portable ATM.

[fryplink]

In one of my parties someone kept a teleportation circle on a sheet rolled up in his bag, then he'd flatten it out on the ground so he could teleport to his vault at home. He' also occasionally send his familiar through to get money for him

Your card could be a miniature circle of teleportation that teleported X money into you hand whenever you activated it. simply set the card on the ground (a circle of teleportation only works on a horizontal surface) to have your fortune (or a hunk of it) appear at your feet. at home, or the bank, you would have the money set on top of the circle, so when the circle was turned on (by becoming horizontal). The other side of the circle is for deposits (the banker would stack deposited money into the appropriate teleportation circle and account)

Edit: Teleportation Circle has to target a creature, so perhaps binding a weak air elemental to the bag the money is in would make the bag both easier to carry and give the circle a target [solution to everything in DnD: enslave a creature from another dimension]

Re-Edit: Teleportation circle is one way (but having the back of the card be a "to the bank" would work) and has a fixed destination ("in my wallet" or on "top of money card" would fly, but it might not with sticklers)

[Siosilvar]

teleportation circle

I was actually thinking of something along the same lines, but forgot that the circle existed; I was trying to use instant summons but that's restricted to one person (though a command word item would probably get around that, were it not more expensive than the amount of money you can transport).