[3.5] Erudite and Hidden Talent?

[Analytica]

The erudite variant psion has this mechanic where it can only manifest a limited number of unique powers per day from its repertoire of powers. Excluding an interpretation of it that would make this number very high, and which seems like a typo, the number is instead low like the number of powers a wilder knows.

A wilder can expand her powers known using Expanded Knowledge, but it seems that doing this will not increase the unique powers/day from the repertoire for the erudite.

My question is: will, in fact, the Hidden Talent feat do this? It is oddly worded, can only be taken at first level, and grants a 1st-level power known from any list. If you can take more than one feat at first level, you can take this more than once. It states that if you have psionic class levels, you manifest the power using your highest manifester level. However, you can manifest it even without that, using Charisma as the key ability.

If so, might Hidden Talent powers be powers an erudite can manifest at her erudite manifester level, using Charisma for save DCs, without counting as unique powers per day, given that they, unlike Expanded Knowledge powers, are not added to her repertoire?

[Kobold-Bard]

Can't answer you about Hidden Talent but the original Erudite in Dragon Mag came with a Feat called "Extra Unique Power". It does exactly what it says on the tin. Only pre-req is having a Level of Erudite.

If I've misunderstood your question, I apologise.

[Optimystik]

I'll try and field this one.

Hidden Talent is a sidebar feat from the XPH that did not make it to the SRD. Basically, it gives you a small manifesting ability, which is separate from your manifesting class (if you have one). You gain 2 bonus PP (just like Wild Talent) and a 1st-level power of your choice. If you do take levels in a manifesting class, the 2 PP you gain are rolled into your pool.

To answer your question - yes, this power would not count as one of your UPD, because you are not manifesting it with your Erudite's manifesting ability - you're instead doing it through your own latent psionics, brought to the surface via the feat.

However, concerning your plan of taking the feat multiple times - this appears not to work. Mind's Eye clarifies that Hidden Talent can normally only be taken once; the one exception is the Soulknife ACF, which lets them take Hidden Talent numerous times.

Special: Normally the Hidden Talent feat can be taken only once at 1st level, but a soulknife with this class ability can take this feat multiple times, each time gaining an additional 2 psionic power points and another 1st-level power.

Does this mean HT is a bad idea? Not at all. There are two interesting bits to this feat that caught my attention: one, the power can come from any list (this grants your Erudite discipline powers at first level, such as Astral Construct); and two, the feat only says you manifest the power using Charisma if you have no psionic class levels. This seems to imply that if you do have psionic class levels, you would use your normal manifesting stat. You don't even need a Charisma score of 11+ to do so - that is a requirement only to use the 2 bonus PP granted by the feat, not to manifest the power itself.

So to summarize:

- Yes, Hidden Talent circumvents an Erudite's UPD.
- No, you cannot take it more than once.
- It is still useful because the chosen power can come from any list, including discipline lists, and will still use your existing ML.
- You need Cha 11+ to use the bonus PP, but can use the free power regardless of Charisma score if you have levels in a manifesting class.

[2xMachina]

If you want to read the feat weirdly...

You can manifest this power with the power points provided by this feat if you have a Cha score of 11 or higher

You can use the bonus PP without Cha11+ by manifesting other powers with it. You just can't use the bonus PP to manifest the given power...

[Optimystik]

If you want to read the feat weirdly...

You can use the bonus PP without Cha11+ by manifesting other powers with it. You just can't use the bonus PP to manifest the given power...

Indeed, good point.

Personally, I think Erudite's UPD by the table is too low as well. Given that RAW gives them a truly ridiculous amount, I would try to compromise with the DM and give them UPD equal to the Ardent's PK progression as a sort of middle ground. So 2 UPD at first level, 3 at second and so on up the list until 21 at 20th.

[Analytica]

However, concerning your plan of taking the feat multiple times - this appears not to work. Mind's Eye clarifies that Hidden Talent can normally only be taken once; the one exception is the Soulknife ACF, which lets them take Hidden Talent numerous times.

Aha. I had missed that, but you are of course completely correct. Thanks for pointing this out!

Then again, doesn't that open the door to dipping Soulknife in order to be able to get multiple Hidden Talents for an Erudite, as long as you never have more Soulknife than Erudite levels? Actually, a single Soulknife dip at level 3 should do it.

[Cog]

Personally, I think Erudite's UPD by the table is too low as well. Given that RAW gives them a truly ridiculous amount...

Slightly off topic, but what reading gives them more than is on the table? Is it taking the line about 'according to his class level' to mean equal to his class level?

[2xMachina]

No.

limited to a certain amount of psionic powers of each level per day

So, lvl 20 erudite gets 11th*9spell lvls per day.

[Optimystik]

Then again, doesn't that open the door to dipping Soulknife in order to be able to get multiple Hidden Talents for an Erudite, as long as you never have more Soulknife than Erudite levels? Actually, a single Soulknife dip at level 3 should do it.

Sure, but that would still require (a) trading feats for 1st-level powers, and (b) dipping Soulknife.

Slightly off topic, but what reading gives them more than is on the table? Is it taking the line about 'according to his class level' to mean equal to his class level?

It's not the "according to his class level" that's the problem; it's the "unique powers of each level per day" as 2x Machina pointed out.