To dip or not to dip

**WarKitty** · 2010-06-23, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)

I am looking to play a druid, core only (PHB and UA). As a bonus I can inherit one item from my previous character, who was also a druid. One of his items is a set of wild dragonhide full plate. Will be starting at level 1, most likely as one of the party meatshields.

My question: is it worth taking heavy armor proficency? Or even a dip in fighter for the free feat plus decent weapons?

**Myou** · 2010-06-23, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)

No, you don't need or want manufactured armour or weapons - you fight by turning into a bear and eating people.

Druid is the one class in the game that only gets weaker if you take dips or PrCs. We don't talk about Planar Shepherd.

**Siosilvar** · 2010-06-23, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)

I'd say it's probably a decent idea just to take the feat for heavy armor; Wild will mean you can keep it when you wildshape, yes? +8 AC for the price of a feat is never a bad thing.

Starting at level 1, though, whether or not to dip depends on how long you're planning on staying at level 5. Levels 1-4, you'll be using weapons either way. Taking a level of Fighter would delay Wildshape until 6th; it's your opportunity cost.

**Vizzerdrix** · 2010-06-23, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)

If you're getting it free, by all means take the feat so you can use the armor. Druids are free to spend their feats (accept the one at 6t level) however they want, and that is a good way to spend a starting feat.

**DragoonWraith** · 2010-06-23, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)

Worth a feat? Yes.

Worth a dip? No.

A Druid 20 is pretty much the optimal build. Druids are plenty strong enough to give up something or other, but ultimately nothing is going to advance Animal Companion, Wild Shape, and Spellcasting, which means Druid is the optimal choice. There is at least one exception (the Planar Shepherd PrC advances all three), but that's hideously broken.

You certainly can dip - you'll still be quite strong - but you'll essentially always be giving up more than you get by doing it.

**Greenish** · 2010-06-23, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)

You're getting a +4 full plate at level 1? Quite generous. I agree that Heavy Armor proficiency is likely worth it.

[Edit]:

Originally Posted by DragoonWraith

ultimately nothing is going to advance Animal Companion, Wild Shape, and Spellcasting, which means Druid is the optimal choice. There is at least one exception (the Planar Shepherd PrC advances all three), but that's hideously broken.

Lion of Talisid loses two levels of Wildshape progression, but 10/10 casting and animal companion. It's only slightly worse than a pure druid.

**Math_Mage** · 2010-06-23, 08:27 PM (ISO 8601)

As a general rule, neither the feat nor the dip is worth it. There are better feats, and every dip costs you a level of Druid, which is bad.

In this case, where you are getting a magnificent piece of armor at 1st level, the feat is a great idea.

**Il_Vec** · 2010-06-23, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)

So as many people have already said, feat is ok, dip is not ok.

**Lin Bayaseda** · 2010-06-23, 08:54 PM (ISO 8601)

The only reason a druid would ever want to dip a fighter level is as a self-nerf, to avoid dominating over weaker party members.

**WarKitty** · 2010-06-23, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)

Oh, one other thing, our games tend to stay fairly low-level. While I don't know for sure there's a strong possibility I would never see wild shape.

**DragoonWraith** · 2010-06-23, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)

All the more reason why the feat is worth it. That's a very good armor for level 1.

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