[3.5] Non-racial, low-level, non-spell/power/etc-based Flight

[DragoonWraith]

Hey, is there any way, through feat or class feature, to gain a flight speed by, say, level 6, with a level of Barbarian and LA +1? Limited forms of flight a la Raptoran are OK, but anything that grants a limited number of rounds of flight in return for the expenditure of a resource (e.g. a spell or power) are not. Fell Flight would be fine, except that it requires Warlock 6 and at the level I'm talking Warlock 4 would be the best you could do.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out how much a racial ability to fly is actually worth, in terms of other ways of getting it.

[SurlySeraph]

Aberration Blood + one other aberrant feat + Starspawn is easily doable by 6th, and gives you a flight speed half your land speed for (1 + CON) rounds at a time, with a minimum one round of rest in between flying.

[DragoonWraith]

Wow, super-limited flight for three feats? Brutal. Especially considering Fly is a 3rd level spell. But, ah, we knew that already.

[PersonMan]

Wow, super-limited flight for three feats? Brutal. Especially considering Fly is a 3rd level spell. But, ah, we knew that already.

Meh. The rest of the Abberant feats are pretty nice. If you are taking 3 of them, you might as well take more, as the effects increase the more you have, and most have +X/2 feats.

[mabriss lethe]

It really isn't what you're looking for, but one of the cheapest flight abilities is animal devotion. 1 minute's worth of flight 1/day. with multiple uses coming from more Animal Devotion feats or burning turn/rebukes. yeah, it's closer in definition to an expendable resource but A Dev also gives you a lot of other improvements. Anyone can pick it up, though. (and it is rather nice for barbarians.)

[jokey665]

Dragon Wings, if you have the Dragonblood Subtype. It gives you a glide similar to (the same as?) the Raptoran's, and at 6 HD you can take Improved Dragon Wings to get a fly speed. If you don't have the subtype then Draconic Heritage gives it to you and requires Sorcerer Level 1st.

All from Races of the Dragon

[The Cat Goddess]

Dragon Wings, if you have the Dragonblood Subtype. It gives you a glide similar to (the same as?) the Raptoran's, and at 6 HD you can take Improved Dragon Wings to get a fly speed. If you don't have the subtype then Draconic Heritage gives it to you and requires Sorcerer Level 1st.

All from Races of the Dragon

Or you can just become a Dragonborn and take the Wings aspect.

Of course, you're better off taking the Breath Weapon and using Feats to get the Wings.

Edit: Remember, EL6 is not Character Level 6... so you would not qualify for your 6th level feat or qualify for the Improved Dragon Wings feat.

[Arbitrarity]

Dip a level or 3 (3 is better!) of Incarnate, and take Open Least Chakra(feet). Bind Airstep Sandals to your feet, and you get all day 40 ft perfect fly speed, assuming you dipped 3 levels.

[DragoonWraith]

Dip a level or 3 (3 is better!) of Incarnate, and take Open Least Chakra(feet). Bind Airstep Sandals to your feet, and you get all day 40 ft perfect fly speed, assuming you dipped 3 levels.

Bingo! The other answers were good (and I looked into Dragonborn, but for comparison purposes I wanted a Goliath, because I'm comparing this to a race with Powerful Build and that feature's pretty unique). Thanks Arbitrarity.

[Arbitrarity]

Mind you, the Open Least Chakra feat requires level 6, and Con 13. Also, whether it gives you unlimited flight is debatable, as the basic meld says you fall after moving, and the bind version says instead you "fly with perfect maneuverability", with no specification if the restriction applies or not.

If you had more levels, going Totemist to Totem Rager might be more interesting (You can enter at level 6), but you wouldn't get flight until you get Waist or Shoulders Chakra, which is level 14. Totem Rager itself is pretty sick though. Gives you a huge boost to Essentia when raging, and Cobalt Rage itself is pretty cool.


Riiight, a race. Derp.

Anyways, you could make a Dragonborn Goliath. Sure, -4 dex, +4 str +4 con, LA +1, but with Wings aspect, you could get limited flight.

[Fouredged Sword]

couldn't you just get the shape soulmeld feat as a totemist to gain the sandles? That way you get the best of both worlds. That and gralion arms for claw attacks durring a pounce.

You did take the lion barb right?

[Dusk Eclipse]

couldn't you just get the shape soulmeld feat as a totemist to gain the sandles? That way you get the best of both worlds. That and gralion arms for claw attacks durring a pounce.

You did take the lion barb right?

Actually Totemist don't need it thanks to the feet bind of the landshark boots... though you definetly need split chakra.... if you want to bind them both

Disclaimer: I migh be wrong about the function of split chakra... I am away from books right now.

[Fouredged Sword]

You still can't read though.

It's a good idea to read though all the soulmelds to cherry pick good ones from the other lists. There are a few golden apples right on the lower branches.

[DragoonWraith]

I think you guys are misunderstanding me: I'm trying to balance a race that gets certain things (Powerful Build, Pounce, a Flight Speed, etc), and therefore I want to try to "build" those racial features from already existing features by the same proposed RHD/LA. So, for the sake of comparison, I'll need a character who has those things, and Goliath (non-Dragonborn since that costs you your racial features) is the only way I'm getting Powerful Build, unless I've missed something.

[Arbitrarity]

Incorrect. Technically, Dragonborn don't lose powerful build. It's not included in the list of feature types lost when you apply the template.

[DragoonWraith]

Incorrect. Technically, Dragonborn don't lose powerful build. It's not included in the list of feature types lost when you apply the template.

Actually, you're right - it explicitly says that you keep Powerful Build if you have it. Interesting...

[Fax Celestis]

Druid wildshape variant, Shapeshift, gives flight (40' good) at-will, swift action activation, at 5th level and it comes with a bunch of other things (a natural attack, some stat bonuses and natural armor, and a bonus feat at 7+).

[DragoonWraith]

But that negates the racial bonuses.

Here's what I came up with as a comparison:

New Table, after I realized that Dragonborn doesn't negate Powerful Build:
{table=head]Dragonborn Goliath | Sphinx
12 + 5d12 + 6*Con HP (6 HD) | 10 + 2d10 + 2d12 + 5*Con HP (5 HD)
{colsp=2}

Goliath averages 16.5 HP more than Sphinx

LA +1/Barbarian 1/Warblade 5 | RHD 3/LA +2/Warblade 2
+5 Str, -4 Dex, +4 Con | +5 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis
Powerful Build | Powerful Build
Pounce | Pounce
Land speed 30 ft. | Land speed 40 ft.
Fly speed 30 ft. (Average) (Con mod rounds) | Fly speed 40 ft. (Average) (Con mod rounds)
Glide 30 ft. (Average) | -
+2 dodge AC | -
Frightful Presence Immunity | -
- | Stability
Normal Vision | Low-light vision, Darkvision
- | 2x 1d6 + Str Claw attacks
- | 1d6 + 1/2 Str Rake
BAB +6/+1 | BAB +5
36 + 9*Int skills) | 20 + 8*Int skills
+5 Fort, +2 Ref, +2 Will | +4 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will
Rage | -
Initiator Level 6 | Initiator Level 3
3rd level Maneuvers | 2nd level Maneuvers
6 M. Known, 4 M. Readied, 2 Stances | 4 M. Known, 3 M. Readied, 1 Stance
Battle Clarity | Battle Clarity
Weapon Aptitude | Weapon Aptitude
Uncanny Dodge | -
Battle Ardor | -
Bonus Warblade Feat | -[/table]
Honestly, they look startlingly similar, and a Dragonborn Goliath Barbarian/Warblade's not a bad build, but for anything else your race isn't as good. Still, LA buy-off works out that this is probably not bad.

You could probably argue for +2 Natural Armor to match the Dragonborn's +2 Dodge AC, and considering how Flight+Glide works in the Dragonborn's favor, full flight is probably fair. You're still down on Rage, Initiator Level, and a lot of Maneuvers here, but you get a pair of natural attacks, rake, better vision modes... probably ought to get some skill bonuses, though, cuz those are looking bad...

Maybe Favored Class: Warblade, and a Warblade Sphinx adds his Sphinx Racial Hit Dice to his Initiator Level, instead of only half?

After this I realized that the Sphinx race also couldn't use weapons or shields; that's a major point that should reduce LA but I haven't quite figured out how we want to do that yet.