Spell research [3.5 DnD]

[LingVudka]

One of my players (16th lvl Wizard) has stated that they want to research a specific spell. We came up with the following so far:

Focused Dispel Magic
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100ft. + 10ft./lvl)
Target or Area: One spellcaster; or one active spell on a creature or object
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No


Targeted Dispel: this spell allows a casterto attempt to dispel a single active spell on a single creature. The caster must identify and state which active spell they are attempting to dispel. Only one active spell is affected.

Counterspell: this spell can be used to counterspell by readying an action as per Dispel Magic.

Focused Dispel Magic allows a maximum caster level bonus on the dispel check of +20, similar to Greater Dispel Magic.

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Cheers


:Edit:
After some discussion I have realised that it should also be available to Sorcerers.

[Maren]

I think it seems fairly balanced. I completely agree that it's somewhere between Regular Dispel Magic (3rd) and Greater Dispel (6th IIRC). So Either Level 4 or 5.

The only thing that I don't like about it is that it's useless in it's current form for a level 7-10 caster (since a regular dispel magic is more flexible and will have the same bonus).

One option would be to make the spell slightly better in some fashion, possibly an extra +2 bonus on the caster level check, to compensate for the loss of area dispel. Although, it has the risk of becoming superior to Greater Dispel for the purposes of counterspelling, but with the restriction you've suggested, that might be okay.

One question though: if you're dispelling, say Mass Bull's Strength, will it remove that buff from one person, or from everyone affected by the spell?

Cheers,

[LingVudka]

Re: Mass Bull's Strength (and other multiple target spells) I was thinking of having it act over an area of say 20ft radius. The dispel check would obviously be made against the original caster for all those under the active spell.

I agree that a regular Dispel Magic is more flexible and that's what we were aiming for. The original intention was for the character to be able to dispel a specific spell and leave everything else whether it be on an enemy or comrade. If it's set as a 4th level spell then the dispel check could have a minimum bonus of +10 this would make it slightly more attractive to use but still leave Dispel Magic with the flexibility.

[LingVudka]

Changed, clarified and simplified some wording. I'm thinking that having it as a swift action to counterspell is worthwhile and helps offset the inflexibility. Opinions?

[Maren]

I think your 16th level researcher might not like the +10 caster level cap. Given it's new flexibility for counterspelling, I think 5th is an appropriate level if you give it a +20 maximum.

I really like the idea of having a counterspell as a swift action if you've thought ahead as to what spells you're likely to be countering.

One nitpicky thing though, I believe in this case it's an Immediate action, as opposed to swift (since you take it on someone else's turn).

[LingVudka]

Good point on the immediate action. Amendments have been made.

I am a little concerned though that this will reduce the power of the feat Improved Counterspell.

[LingVudka]

After yet more discussion with my player he has pointed out that this spell pretty much negates the feat Reactive Counterspell from the Players Guide to Faerun. I'm in agreement. So....amendments! lol

[Maren]

The only concern I have now, is that this spell is just as good at counterspelling as the 6th level greater dispel magic. That's not necessarily that bad though.

[Milskidasith]

Counterspelling is just about worthless anyway, unless you can find a way to make it take less actions, and if it takes less actions, this spell becomes a must have.

Also, wizards are straight up better than sorcerers, and have higher spell levels earlier so they can counterspell better anyway, so why should the spell be wizard only?

[LingVudka]

In reply (albeit a little late)

@Maren: My player was after a stripped down version of Greater Dispel, basically they were wanting to specifically target spells and also be able to counterspell but with the higher caster level. It's less versatile hence the lower spell level.

@Milskidasith: A Sorcerer is very good at counterspelling by using Heighten Spell on their cantrips (of which they have chosen one of every school) to the needed spell level. Then they can take many feats to increase their counterspelling efficiency. This still allows freedom in their choice of higher level spells while covering the counterspelling of every school.

True they do get spell levels at one character level behind Wizards but a Wizard will still only have a very limited number of their highest level spells and it will only be for every alternate level. Sorcerers also get more spells/day and there are definitely ways to reduce the casting time for counterspelling.

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On the original topic: my player is happy with the spell however I've yet to see it in gameplay. I'll give feedback on how it goes.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I prefer to counterspell more directly, say I ready an action to blast him with scorching ray or an orb spell when he starts casting. Much more efficient.

[Milskidasith]

@Milskidasith: A Sorcerer is very good at counterspelling by using Heighten Spell on their cantrips (of which they have chosen one of every school) to the needed spell level. Then they can take many feats to increase their counterspelling efficiency. This still allows freedom in their choice of higher level spells while covering the counterspelling of every school.

That's not good at all. First of all, you can't do that without rapid metamagic; counterspelling takes a readied action, and it's a full round action to cast a meta'd up spell. Secondly, that still burns high level spell slots. Third, as I said, they aren't going to be capable of pulling out a high enough level spell.

True they do get spell levels at one character level behind Wizards but a Wizard will still only have a very limited number of their highest level spells and it will only be for every alternate level. Sorcerers also get more spells/day and there are definitely ways to reduce the casting time for counterspelling.

Wizards have slightly less spells of each level; not a "very limited" amount. After bonus spells, they probably have three quarters the capacity of a sorcerer or more.

Reducing the time for counterspelling is possible, yes, but all the methods to do so are inefficient and burn a lot of feats. Saying sorcerers are good at counterspelling because they can use heighten (three feats; one for heighten, one to cast heighten'd spells without needing to ready a full round action, which is IIRC impossible, and one so they can use said heightened spells to counterspell) and then pick more feats so their counterspells are more likely to succeed is simply not true; if you're burning four or more feats on something just to give the enemy the action advantage, you're doing something wrong.

[Lord Vukodlak]

That's not good at all. First of all, you can't do that without rapid metamagic; counterspelling takes a readied action, and it's a full round action to cast a meta'd up spell. Secondly, that still burns high level spell slots. Third, as I said, they aren't going to be capable of pulling out a high enough level spell.

So you mean wizards only ever cast their highest level spells?

Still your right about most of the stuff you said, which is why I prefer to counterspell by directly attacking the caster.

[Milskidasith]

So you mean wizards only ever cast their highest level spells?

Still your right about most of the stuff you said, which is why I prefer to counterspell by directly attacking the caster.

They don't only ever cast their highest level spell, no, but their highest or second highest level spell (half the time) can't even be touched by a Sorcerer's counterspell. Spending high level slots and a ton of valuable feats just to counterspell the enemies weaker spells is even more underpowered; it's a huge investment in order to give your enemy a 1:1 action sacrifice.

[LingVudka]

@Milskidasith: I agree with you that it shouldn't be Wiz only. I don't agree with you that counterspelling is worthless, it's very useful situationally.

Also, yes it does take a few feats to get the counterspelling to use less than a full round action for Sorcerers - Improved Initiative, Improved Counterspell, Reactive Counterspell (Players Guide to Faerun), Heighten Spell and Rapid Metamagic (Complete Mage). So a Sorcerer would be 9th level before being able to reduce the casting time to a standard action and counter just about any spell up to their max spell level as an immediate action. (So long as you're not flat footed and they're in range: see the Counterspell Sorcerer thread)

The Metamagic Specialist in the PHB2 is also useful but underpowered in my opinion.