Spell to Power Erudite: Anyone remember this trick?

[Wings of Peace]

Earlier I was fooling around with psionics mostly just to keep myself from forgetting the general tricks of it, specifically I was fooling around with the Spell to Power Erudite variant and I know that awhile back I saw someone explain a trick to enable the Erudite to learn 9th level spells as power. Any ideas from you more psionically skilled than myself? For those who recommend learning the 9ths off lists where they are not 9ths this was not the trick, that much I remember but that is where what I remember ends too

[Ravens_cry]

Can the DM your dealing with take that level of ghouda? Are your fellow companions of the table top comfortable with that level of cheese?

[Wings of Peace]

Can the DM your dealing with take that level of ghouda? Are your fellow companions of the table top comfortable with that level of cheese?

This is a TO experiment I've been doing for myself. Other DMs and players are not a factor.

[Ravens_cry]

This is a TO experiment I've been doing for myself. Other DMs and players are not a factor.

*shrugs*
OK then, I don't find that kind of thing terribly fun myself, but hey, I am not you.

[Wings of Peace]

*shrugs*
OK then, I don't find that kind of thing terribly fun myself, but hey, I am not you.

To each there own, though while you're in the thread I don't suppose you have any ideas?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Earth Power may or may not boost the effective power level by one, but I'm AFB, so I'm uncertain if that was the trick used or not.

EDIT: It's not Earth Power.

[Ranos]

Um...What's stopping you from learning 9th level spells exactly ? You can use them just fine. Not much of a TO, though it's still extreme cheese.

[Wings of Peace]

Um...What's stopping you from learning 9th level spells exactly ? You can use them just fine. Not much of a TO, though it's still extreme cheese.

The spells are treated as discipline powers. The maximum level of a discipline power an Erudite can learn is one below the highest level power he can manifest.

[Ranos]

The spells are treated as discipline powers. The maximum level of a discipline power an Erudite can learn is one below the highest level power he can manifest.

Ah. Well, sanctum spell, Talfirian Song if you've got some bard levels, earth power (not ?), should all solve your problem.

[Wings of Peace]

Ah. Well, sanctum spell, Talfirian Song if you've got some bard levels, earth power (not ?), should all solve your problem.

Metamagic cannot be applied to a power so I am uncertain if the metamagic's effects would remain through the conversion process. I'm not the world's greatest rules lawyer so I don't know if that's the case or not.

[Doc Roc]

In fact, in general, feats are completely non-transparent, which of course is weird when you consider that powers are to be treated as spells. Tali song might work, but I'm leaning towards no.

[Ranos]

Metamagic cannot be applied to a power so I am uncertain if the metamagic's effects would remain through the conversion process. I'm not the world's greatest rules lawyer so I don't know if that's the case or not.

Ah, you're right. Only other way I could see is converting the epic feat Improved Spell Capacity. It's shaky though, even though raw says you should be able to convert any epic feat to psionics.

If you can find someone who's already done this, psychic chirurgery could transfer the power to you earlier.

[jseah]

I seem to recall that psionicists can learn powers off each other instead of a power stone.

If this applies to a erudite, learning a prepared metamagicked power (specifically sanctum spell to lower the spell level) directly from a spellcaster's prepared slot should be possible.

[Ranos]

I seem to recall that psionicists can learn powers off each other instead of a power stone.

If this applies to a erudite, learning a prepared metamagicked power (specifically sanctum spell to lower the spell level) directly from a spellcaster's prepared slot should be possible.

Yeah, that should do it. You'd need a two-person team to accomplish that trick though. Or leadership.

[hamishspence]

Ah, you're right. Only other way I could see is converting the epic feat Improved Spell Capacity. It's shaky though, even though raw says you should be able to convert any epic feat to psionics.

If you can find someone who's already done this, psychic chirurgery could transfer the power to you earlier.

The problem with that is- metapsionics doesn't raise the power's level, but raises the number of power points it takes to cast it.

So psionicists effectively get Improved Spell Capacity for free.

Heighten Power (if there was such a feat) might qualify- turning the power's level (for effects that ask what level a power is)

[Optimystik]

Yeah, that should do it. You'd need a two-person team to accomplish that trick though. Or leadership.

Or Thrallherd (aka: Leadership on steroids), which Erudites can enter.

[2xMachina]

You could try Psi Chigury for the powers.

[Optimystik]

You could try Psi Chigury for the powers.

Once one StP Erudite learns them, yes. The trouble is getting them into the head of the first one.

[Ranos]

The problem with that is- metapsionics doesn't raise the power's level, but raises the number of power points it takes to cast it.

So psionicists effectively get Improved Spell Capacity for free.

Heighten Power (if there was such a feat) might qualify- turning the power's level (for effects that ask what level a power is)

Actually, no. Your first level energy ray, augmented to cost 20pp ? Still first level on every other account (if you ever need to get past a globe of invulnerability for example, or if you add a DC through some means). Power level and pp cost are two different monsters.

That's not the case for spellcasters though, and spell to power erudites get to treat casters just like any other source of powers. So if I'm not wrong, they can very well take "sanctum spell'd wish" out of a caster's head. A 8th level spell, which they treat as a normal 8th level power.

[hamishspence]

the point being that for all metamagic other than Heighten Spell, an epic psionicist's power point cap makes him a lot like a Wizard with free Improved Spell Capacity feats.

[Optimystik]

So if I'm not wrong, they can very well take "sanctum spell'd wish" out of a caster's head. A 8th level spell, which they treat as a normal 8th level power.

They can indeed, so long as their thrall stays in the sanctum while preparing it.

Assuming a Cha score of 10, the earliest an Erudite/Thrallherd can get a wizard thrall capable of 9th-level spells is 18.

[hamishspence]

Given that epic magic "counts as" 10th level spells- and that there is supposed to be an Epic Manifestation feat- maybe if you take that feat, you can now access 9th level spells via StP?

[Ranos]

Given that epic magic "counts as" 10th level spells- and that there is supposed to be an Epic Manifestation feat- maybe if you take that feat, you can now access 9th level spells via StP?

Epic spells have no fixed level. However, for purposes of Concentration checks, spell resistance, and other possible situations where spell level is important, epic spells are all treated as if they were 10th-level spells.

It's a bit murky since it's not the spell's level that's important at that point but the maximum level of spell you can cast, but I think it works by most interpretations.

[2xMachina]

Once you hit epic, lvl 9 spells ain't that great anyway.

[Wings of Peace]

Given that epic magic "counts as" 10th level spells- and that there is supposed to be an Epic Manifestation feat- maybe if you take that feat, you can now access 9th level spells via StP?

Yeah, but anything becomes accessible if epic is involved. Ideally this would be a lvl 20 build.

[Optimystik]

Once you hit epic, lvl 9 spells ain't that great anyway.

If you disallow Epic Spellcasting (perfectly reasonable) and simply use Improved Spell Capacity + Metamagic to represent "epic spells" then they can actually become useful. (For example - metamagic a Miracle of a spell not on your list.)

[Endarire]

The Ardent's Magic Mantle (Complete Psionic 70) make psionics and magic fully transparent.

[Ranos]

The Ardent's Magic Mantle (Complete Psionic 70) make psionics and magic fully transparent.

Problem is, it doesn't work by RAI ("Most campaign already treat them in this manner" implies that those are the usual transparency rules) and is way too vague to have any effect by RAW (you could interpret it in thousands of different ways).

[FMArthur]

Does a Dragonwrought Kobold Psion 18 gain the benefit of Improved Spell Capacity when they take it, through psi-magic transparency?