Warhammer 40k d20

[Caxton]

I've done research into D20 systems for Warhammer 40k and found a rather disappointing field. However, I have seen alot of good 40k related stuff in this forum. I would like to start and help with a new project to finally make these two great games come together. If anyone has something to contribute, or something already made that they are willing to add to this world, please let me know!

I will probably start on this myself for awhile, and will post some new homebrew in the next few days. However, I find myself in need of general advice on this matter, as I'm a little inexperienced homebrewing D20. Any aid of any kind will be greatly appreciated.

[Corporate M]

Well, cultists are easy enough. Tzeetch, Nurgle, Slaanish, and Khorne are like greater deities whom chaos cultists worship. Chaos cultists would kind of be like clerics, only their spells and abilities rest upon which chaos deity they're worshipping.

For example, I'm an avid fan of Nurgle. Nurgle's everything I'd want in a deity. He promotes pestilance, disease, and biological terror. So his clerics would use poison weapons, and spells like cloudkill and contagion. They would also have some dread necromancer qualities as they progressively become more like undead. So Libris Mortis comes in handy with all sorts of undead creatures. I personally would want to be the kind of worshipper who has huge boils growing out in clearly visible places. That way when somebody attacks me, the boils burst and releases swarms of hornets and acid puss gets everywhere. This is considered the most basic stuff in Nurgle's arsenal. And if you think that's bad, he's one of the "better" chaos deities who's all about making his worshippers a tightly gnit family. Can you imagine if Orcus was a main character on Full House?

Tzeetch is basically Asmodeus by another name. He's always one step ahead, he's always undermining everybody else and at the top, and everyone always talks smack about him yet won't lift a finger against him. They're too afraid too. Asmodeous more then any of the other chaos gods is about pure spellcasting. So he'd get the best spells. The utility ones...

Khorne is a war god. Self buffs are pretty common amongst clerics, what isn't common is a complete disregard for one's fallen allies. Khorne isn't the god you want to worship if you want job security... He's been known to kill his own suboordinates in fits of rage. His worshippers are something like frenzied beserkers. Ironically, Khrone despises magic, and it is forbidden for his worshippers to use it. Because apparently it makes you a sissy.

Slaanish is just all about drugs, sex, and passive aggressive bullcrap. I immagine if you really want to capture the essence of Slaanish you'll need to consult book of vile darkness for some idea of wear to go with spells, addiction, perversions, etc.



And that's just the chaos gods. Orks are essentially plant based creatures that when they "bleed", they pollenate, and then there's more of them to deal with. They're chaotic stupid and live only for the "fun" of battle. And though you'd think Khorne would control them, they can't be controlled. They have their own quantamn psychic hive mind that basically grants them immunity to chaos god's suggestions... So they're psionic and have spell resistance ontop of everything else...

There's the eldar. Pretty much what you'd expect of elves. They think they're so great, and maybe at one time they were. But now they're a joke. Eldar are to be played kind of like psionic paladins. They can predict the future, and have a deep fear of falling to the warp. (Imagine if the elemental plane of negative energy was all the elemental plane of dirty thoughts, fiends, and entropy where anything and everything can happen...)

The Tau. My most despised faction... The Tau are like some Zeitgesit crap. This ultra collectivist bunch of stromtroopers who probably would use auras like marshals/dragon shamans to powerup eachother. It's the reverse ninja law. The more tau are in a room, the more screwed you are... Inorder to get inside the mindset of the tau, watch that movie Hot Fuzz. "For the greater good!"

Kroot. A firm ally to The Tau for saving their entire species from the wrath of orks. Kroot are basically like planet of the apes. If their "rapid evolution" power translated into D&D, it'd probably be either in the form of spelltheif's steal spell ability or druid's wildshape, but at the cost of they risk losing their sentinence and becoming no better then a normal chimpanzee.

Then there's The Imperium. More or less, these are "the goodguys" of Warhammer 40k, in that it seems to primarily revolve around them fighting the chaos factions. The Imperium is everything you come to expect from future dystopias. Nazi undertones, a one world military state, ridiculous guns and codes... Sometimes the imperium allows it's members to excersise their psionic abilities and become the psi-ops. But thats few and far between because opening up one's mind to psionics also tempts fate to make you suspetable to the warp. (So in warhammer40k, psionics=binder) The brunt of the military are just tier-5 fighter squadrons who occassionally pull off something good, but are just cannon fodder. The bread and butter of heroism from the imperium is the inqusition (paladins pumped up and can smite just about anything at just about anytime) and space marines. (Fighters with some very VERY nice gear...)



I don't play with the miniatures, but I throughly enjoy the morbid space appocalypse scenario... Hoped I help some.

[paddyfool]

You do know about Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, right? Not everything has to be d20...

(The current edition is made by Fantasy Flight, and is nice and easy to learn and get into. However, being a Fantasy Flight game, it comes with ludicrous amounts of props and stuff).

Whoops, just saw you were talking about 40k. You want Rogue Trader. Haven't played it myself, but I've some friends who've found it fun.

[Dead_Jester]

Chaos:

Spoiler

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Tzeetch is basically Asmodeus by another name. He's always one step ahead, he's always undermining everybody else and at the top, and everyone always talks smack about him yet won't lift a finger against him. They're too afraid too. Asmodeous more then any of the other chaos gods is about pure spellcasting. So he'd get the best spells. The utility ones...

Actually, Tzeetch is more like a completaly mad Asmodeus that facestabed the god of magic and stole his powers and now uses his amazing intellect to further his own agenda that even he can't fully understand. He also has a tendency to be too generous with his followers, often given them too many Chaos Gifts and transforming them into mindless Spawns.

Khorne is a war god. Self buffs are pretty common amongst clerics, what isn't common is a complete disregard for one's fallen allies. Khorne isn't the god you want to worship if you want job security... He's been known to kill his own suboordinates in fits of rage. His worshippers are something like frenzied beserkers. Ironically, Khrone despises magic, and it is forbidden for his worshippers to use it. Because apparently it makes you a sissy.

I think you meant that a complete disregard of ones and ones allies safety is common. As a matter of fact, Khorne worshipers are known to live by the rule that a day without a death in the name of Khorne is a wasted day, and so often turn on one another if their are no other victims nearby. Khorne is also famous for his tendancy to make Spawns out of every Champion that loses a battle. His worshippers also hate Nurgle, for reasons that remain unclear. However, he has been known to refuse to send his worshipers to attack innocents, because they were "unworthy of his attention".

Slaanish is just all about drugs, sex, and passive aggressive bullcrap. I immagine if you really want to capture the essence of Slaanish you'll need to consult book of vile darkness for some idea of wear to go with spells, addiction, perversions, etc.

Slaanesh is actually the god of perversion, having been birthed during the Fall of the Eldars (they had become so decadent that their latent psychic powers birthed Slaanesh). Most other Chaos Gods despise Slaanesh for her decadence, but Nurgle often doesn't mind, probably because of his own view of himself as "Father Nurgle", who freely gives "gifts" to all his followers.

Orks:

Spoiler

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And that's just the chaos gods. Orks are essentially plant based creatures that when they "bleed", they pollenate, and then there's more of them to deal with. They're chaotic stupid and live only for the "fun" of battle. And though you'd think Khorne would control them, they can't be controlled. They have their own quantamn psychic hive mind that basically grants them immunity to chaos god's suggestions... So they're psionic and have spell resistance ontop of everything else...

Orks are naturaly psychic, but they don't have a Hive Mind, and most can't use their powers. Only a chosen few can, and they take their powers from the uncontrolled psychic emanations from nearby Orks (know as Waaagh!!! power) instead of the Warp. Furthermore, it is often stated that if Orks could only stop fighting amongst them, they could whipe out the entire Galaxy.

Spoiler

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Eldars:

There's the eldar. Pretty much what you'd expect of elves. They think they're so great, and maybe at one time they were. But now they're a joke. Eldar are to be played kind of like psionic paladins. They can predict the future, and have a deep fear of falling to the warp. (Imagine if the elemental plane of negative energy was all the elemental plane of dirty thoughts, fiends, and entropy where anything and everything can happen...)

Since the Fall (well actually, since they deafeted the Necrons), the Eldars have been a dying race. Their military is highly organized, with different spesializations know as Aspects (lots of Prc possibilities here), and their Psykers are more like Psy Wars with a focus on telepathy (especially the Warlocks). They are still individually some of the most dangerous warriors in the Galaxy, and are often the only thing that saves it from destruction at the hands of a Dark Crusade of Hive Fleet.

Spoiler

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Tau:

The Tau. My most despised faction... The Tau are like some Zeitgesit crap. This ultra collectivist bunch of stromtroopers who probably would use auras like marshals/dragon shamans to powerup eachother. It's the reverse ninja law. The more tau are in a room, the more screwed you are... Inorder to get inside the mindset of the tau, watch that movie Hot Fuzz. "For the greater good!"

The Tau are actually the only race with no acess to psychic powers of any sort, and are known for their fast attack and stealth tactics. They supplement their tactics with other races, including the Kroot and the Vespid.

Kroot. A firm ally to The Tau for saving their entire species from the wrath of orks. Kroot are basically like planet of the apes. If their "rapid evolution" power translated into D&D, it'd probably be either in the form of spelltheif's steal spell ability or druid's wildshape, but at the cost of they risk losing their sentinence and becoming no better then a normal chimpanzee.

Actually, the Kroots evolution is based on them eating their victims, so maybe make a class that can "absorb" the abilities of their victims (either for a limited time or until they replace them with others). This natural thendancy makes the Kroot into of the deadliest species in the long run, because they take the best characteristics from all their victims.

Imperium of Man:

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Then there's The Imperium. More or less, these are "the goodguys" of Warhammer 40k, in that it seems to primarily revolve around them fighting the chaos factions. The Imperium is everything you come to expect from future dystopias. Nazi undertones, a one world military state, ridiculous guns and codes... Sometimes the imperium allows it's members to excersise their psionic abilities and become the psi-ops. But thats few and far between because opening up one's mind to psionics also tempts fate to make you suspetable to the warp. (So in warhammer40k, psionics=binder) The brunt of the military are just tier-5 fighter squadrons who occassionally pull off something good, but are just cannon fodder.

The Imperium (and especially the Inquisition) aren't really good, their simply not as genocidal as the rest (although they have nothing against firebombing entire planets for the sake of killing a few heretics). It is still a totalitary regime that is heavily indoctrinated and xenophobic. Also, the Emperor (their "god" that is infact an invalid extremely powerfull psyker) requires that they feed him the souls of a thousand psykers everyday to "feed him". Finally, one of the most iconic parts of the Imperium's Army is the Comissars, indoctrinated officers whose only function is maintening fighting spirit in the men, often by executing a few (like the Soviets did in WW2). As for the men themselves, even if they are the worst in the Galaxy, they'd still probably be the equivalent of US Marines (or any other heavily trained organisation here), and the Stormtroopers are true masters of guerrila warfare and Black Ops.

The bread and butter of heroism from the imperium is the inqusition (paladins pumped up and can smite just about anything at just about anytime) and space marines. (Fighters with some very VERY nice gear...)

Actually, the Inquisition is more like the Gestapo on steroids, with the unsavory tendancy to destroy entire worlds because of "rumors" of heresy (one of their motos is "It is better for a milion to die then to let 1 heretic live."), and most Inquisitors are far from perfect examples of good. Most are Lawfull EVIL, and some even become corrupted by the forces they mean to destroy. The only true champions are the Grey Knights, who are at best Lawfull Neutral, but are essentially all Psychic Warriors with a heavy dose of Übermench in there (they receive the same biomods as Space Marines, but have an even more rigourous mental training, and none have ever fallen to Chaos).
As for the Space Marines, they are essentially extremely bioengineered humans that have the strenght of 5 men and that are almost unkilable. They don't sleep, then can keep on fighting if they are ripped in two, and have crazy big armor that weights about 2 tons. They vary wildly from one Chapter (essentially different armies, but that are self-sufficient and independant). Some, like the Ultramarines and the Imperial Fist, are close to the "Codex", and are organised and have a standard organisation. Others, like the Space Wolves, are wilder, and focus on close combat and planetary assaults. They are almost a thousand Chapters, and each have their own differences and special units, so its an almost endless supply of ideas. However, they aren't immune to the influence of Demons, and during the Horus Heresy, half of them (which is essentially a couple of milions) turned against the Emperor and joined Chaos (so now you can have even more Evil Space Marines with mutations). They are like fighters, exept with all the advantages of Barbarian, Warblade and Crusader all smashed into one, and then some.

And those are only the "nice" races. Then you have the truly evil ones.

Necrons:

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First of all, theirs the Necrons, who are essentially immortal warforged with uncontrolable omnicidal tendancies and whose ultimate goal is the destruction of all life in the universe (to feed it to their Gods). They are also souless, so the Demons can't try to posess them.

Dark Eldars:

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Then their is the Dark Eldars, essentially the Eldars that were corrupted by Slaanesh during the fall. They are always Chaotic Evil, and are essentially Drows exept 10 times as cruel and with a space pirate feel to them.

Tyranids:

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Finally, theirs the Tyranids, that are essentially uncountable hordes of giant bugs that live to consumme all life in the Universe (not the galaxy, the universe) linked in a Hive Mind. They are also bioengineered into specialised roles (like the Zerg in Starcraft), and the bigger they get, the more intelligent they become (except for Carnifexes, who are the BSFs of the race). They also have a tendancy to developp psychic powers, but they stem from the communal mental might of the Hive Mind, and not from the Warp. As for alignement, they are essentially Neutral Hungry.

This might seem a little oppresive, but remember that Warhammer 40k is an extremely dark and grity universe, were bilions die every day in endless wars. Although some individuals are good, they are no organisation that are actually Good, because they are all xenophobic and ruthless.

Finaly, always remember that In the dark future of the 41st millenium, their is only War.

[imperialspectre]

All of the work for playing a D20-based 40k game can be found here. It's quite enjoyable.

[Caxton]

I've looked at a few other d20 systems and they don't really work for me. Especially since you have to be an Imperium person. I had this same problem with Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy. I want a system that allows much more freedom than that. With that said, I have a plan of action for starting to produce some material.

1. Space Marines (Prestige Class I think it will be)
2. A system for Psykers
3. Eldar

Any advice on these things will be greatly appreciated. And of course, if anyone has any material they like I'd love to see it.

(BTW I am a big fan of Eldar so I am going to do some detail on the Eldar stuff. It does seem like the Aspect Warriors are going to be PrCs!)

[Oslecamo]

I've looked at a few other d20 systems and they don't really work for me. Especially since you have to be an Imperium person.

+1. All of the oficial material wants to force you to play some lowly imperial, not even a proper inquisitor or space marine.

Any advice on these things will be greatly appreciated. And of course, if anyone has any material they like I'd love to see it.

My first homebrew here was a space marine class.

[NecroticPunch]

If I had some help with it, I could make some more Tyranid PrCs. I already did Zoanthrope :/

[whoiam]

Just to add something, briefly: This thread contains both Necrotic's Zoanthrope PrC and my Make-a-Tyranid kit that it was written to extend.

[Dead_Jester]

I'd suggest making a base class for all races you want, and then expand on that with Prcs to make the specialised classes (except for Tyranids, just look at whoiam's class, it works perfectly).

Also, I think that for the most part, W40k is better suited to a Gestalt game, because except for the Imperial Guard and the Tau themselves, most other races at least have a few LA, and most Heroes are probably dual-classed. (heck, even the average Ork Warboss is probably an Ork/LA+Warboss Prc+something else).

[Caxton]

Working on the Space Marines. I need to do more research on the chapters, as I really don't know so much about Space Wolves and Blood Angels. About Grey Knights, should they be included here? They are Space Marines, to my understanding.

Also I want to mention that the Tyranid stuff looks great! Thanks for the contribution. Tyranid's kinda worried me as I didn't want to have to make a thousand monsters.

[whoiam]

As I remember it, Grey Knights are Terminators with special weapons and low-level squad psyker powers.

[Oslecamo]

As I remember it, Grey Knights are Terminators with special weapons and low-level squad psyker powers.

Not exactly, grey knights are a special chapter specialized in fighting daemons. Most of them use power armor pimped up with all kind of special seals to ward off warp energies. They're indeed all psykers, because they all are armed with force weapons wich demand psychic energy to unleash their full power. Said force weapons are specially effective against daemons. And then there's terminator grey knights wich are like the above but with warded terminator armor.

They're tecnically the strongest marines, but from a cost-effeciency point of view, they're only really worth it when fighting against daemons, as most of their extra stuff is useless against more regular oponents like orks.

Oh, and they're also completely brainwashed into soulless machines to make sure they can never be tempted/tricked by chaos. They're the only chapter that has zero traitors on it's history.

[hamishspence]

In 2nd ed, the only Grey knights there were rules for, were the Terminators, but in 3rd ed, they got a whole army- Land Raiders, power armoured guys, dreadnoughts, etc.

[Dead_Jester]

Working on the Space Marines. I need to do more research on the chapters, as I really don't know so much about Space Wolves and Blood Angels. About Grey Knights, should they be included here? They are Space Marines, to my understanding.

Also I want to mention that the Tyranid stuff looks great! Thanks for the contribution. Tyranid's kinda worried me as I didn't want to have to make a thousand monsters.

If you want help with the Chapters, just PM me. I know a wealth of info about most, especialy the original 10.

And as for Grey Knights, they were originaly part of the Imperium's army, and have had "traitors", only no demonic possesions.

[whoiam]

To be fair, I haven't used Grey Knights since 2nd ed. Except for their appearance in Dawn of War...

[NecroticPunch]

I'll be getting Dawn of War soon, so I'm happy.

On a related note: Ok, so are we gonna have someone post up a table of everyone's duties?

[Lord Blace]

I'm willing to work on armors/items/what-not. And IMO, the vitality&wound point system would work well here.
What does everyone think of armor bestowing damage reduction/armor piercing x? So that, say standard Space Marine power armor would give DR X/AP Y? And things that give an invulnerable save have dr/-? And various weapons would be given an AP score along with its damage/range/etc?

[Caxton]

Making headway on the Space Marine PrC. Statted out some armors, so there is something to show. BTW the Armor Performance ability will be a feature that Space Marines develop. Also I am using a system under which weapons will have an AP value (at the suggestion of Lord Blace!) which can negate damage reduction. Tell me what you think of the work so far! Also, anyone who wishes to volunteer for any part of the universe is highly encouraged to do so...either post here or PM me. I really am looking forward to doing Eldar though, I love their fluff.

Space Marine Armors
{table=head]Armor Name|Damage Reduction|Armor Check Penalty|Wealth DC|Weight

Scout Armor|

3/AP 3

|

-2

|

19

|

30 Lbs

|

Power Armor|

4/ Ap 4

|

-4

|

25

|

50 Lbs

|

Artificer Armor|

10/Ap 5

|

-4

|

40

|

50 Lbs

|

Terminator Armor|

10/-

|

-8

|

30

|

80 Lbs

|[/table]

Scout Armor
The standard armor worn by the scouts of the space marines. It can only be used to its full potential by a Space Marine. Anyone without Scout Armor Performance only receives DR 1/AP 1 and has a maximum dexterity bonus of +1.

Power Armor
Worn by tactical marines, as well as most other Marine formations, Power Armor is a visible symbol of the Imperium's might. Only those who possess the physical augmentations and special training of the Space Marines may use Power Armor to its fullest potential. Anyone without Power Armor Performance only receives DR 2/Ap 2 and has a maximum dexterity bonus of +0.

Artificer Armor
An incredibly rare and powerful armor only granted to the most revered Space Marines, Artificer Armor combines the protection of Terminator Armor with the flexibility of Power Armor. The armor also houses a bewildering array of tools, granting a +2 equipment bonus to all Craft and Repair checks. However, only one who has reached the fullest potential of his gene seed may use the armor properly. All those without Artificer Armor Performance may not enjoy any bonuses to skill checks from the Armor, receive DR 2/ AP 2, and have a maximum dexterity bonus of +0.

Terminator Armor
The Terminator Armor provides a protective shell capable of withstanding the most powerful weapons of the 41st millennium. The Crux Terminatus in the shoulder plate of the armor provides a ward allowing this armor to survive the most penetrating fire. However, one cannot hope to receive the full protection of the armor without the special interface mechanisms woven into Space Marine gene seed. Those without Terminator Armor Performance receive DR 3/ AP 3.

[Zellic Solis]

What this thread tells me is that you have no idea what 40k really is. The line "I want a game with more freedom" says to me that you think 40k is about choice. It isn't. It is a harsh game and a harsh setting. I have had GM's force me to roll my planet of origin and class every bit as random as my stats because you have no control over who you are born to or your economic status. And I have had my character shot through the head for questioning the need to purge a hive of 'benign' Xenos.

Dark Heresy is called that for a reason. 40K is dark. Rogue trader is a shade less so. The Xenos aren't your friends. They will get you killed, either killing you themselves, getting someone else to kill you, or getting the Inquisition to shoot you themselves. The Imperium is not nice. They are not good. They do not pretend to be. They are the domination of humanity and will do anything and everything to perpetuate its existence.

The Orks are not your friends. They want to kill you for fun. They are genetically disposed to do so.

The Eldar are not you friends. You are meat. You DIE of AGE. You are a species that has to make do with whatever dirt you come across while the Eldar grow their own world and craft their wonders from the souls of their dead through pure will alone. And for you, the only difference is that you are too worthless for the Eldar to do other than a quick death while the dark Eldar feast on your pain and misery. Literally.

The Tyrannids wish to eat you. Your family. Your friends. Every organic thing on your planet. And the next. and the next.

The Necrons want to kill you. Period.

The Demons want to use you to destroy the universe. It's their duty to use you.

Ah, but I know what you're thinking. The Tau are good, right? "For the Greater Good" and all that? The Tau are insects. The Etherial caste control their entire race through pheromones. The greater good is whatever the Etherials say it is and the Etherials mass breed millions of sterile fire caste warriors to send them to their "oh so regrettable" deaths. And funny how every human colony absorbed by the Tau has humans going extinct. What an interesting coincidence, huh?

In short, in the 40k world the other is not your friend. The other will use you, kill you, exploit you, corrupt you, or do anything and everything to ensure that you betray your own species. There is not a single Xenos species that can cohabit with humanity in 40k. Sure the Imperium is quite a collection of royal bastards but at least they're human. Their actions forward humanity, albeit by monstrous means.

What you seem to be doing is trying to make 40k into DnD. Stop. You can't. You won't be playing an eldar screaming banshee teaming up with your orc buddy and his necro pariah friend while the space marine decides which demon cult to wipe out. It doesn't work like that. Ever. Do Xenos and the Imperium work together on exceptionally rare occasions? Sure. Ghostwatch is a team of space Marines working with the Inquisition to deal with problems 'subtly'. But once the problem is dealt with 40k makes it very clear: "Purge the unclean" and that includes every alien, mutant, and heretic that doesn't match the inquisition's criteria. And that is a fact and a way of life that you accept when you play 40k. You want to mix humans with strange and exotic aliens? Play star wars. It's d20 and your GM can pretend to make it something like the grimdark of 40k. But don't pretend that it's nothing less than a cheap bastardization of the harsh and cruel setting of the original.

Incidentally, the Astartes book (for space marines) is coming out in july and the psyker book is coming out in october.

[Lord Blace]

What this thread tells me is that you have no idea what 40k really is. The line "I want a game with more freedom" says to me that you think 40k is about choice. It isn't. It is a harsh game and a harsh setting. I have had GM's force me to roll my planet of origin and class every bit as random as my stats because you have no control over who you are born to or your economic status. And I have had my character shot through the head for questioning the need to purge a hive of 'benign' Xenos.

Dark Heresy is called that for a reason. 40K is dark. Rogue trader is a shade less so. The Xenos aren't your friends. They will get you killed, either killing you themselves, getting someone else to kill you, or getting the Inquisition to shoot you themselves. The Imperium is not nice. They are not good. They do not pretend to be. They are the domination of humanity and will do anything and everything to perpetuate its existence.

The Orks are not your friends. They want to kill you for fun. They are genetically disposed to do so.

The Eldar are not you friends. You are meat. You DIE of AGE. You are a species that has to make do with whatever dirt you come across while the Eldar grow their own world and craft their wonders from the souls of their dead through pure will alone. And for you, the only difference is that you are too worthless for the Eldar to do other than a quick death while the dark Eldar feast on your pain and misery. Literally.

The Tyrannids wish to eat you. Your family. Your friends. Every organic thing on your planet. And the next. and the next.

The Necrons want to kill you. Period.

The Demons want to use you to destroy the universe. It's their duty to use you.

Ah, but I know what you're thinking. The Tau are good, right? "For the Greater Good" and all that? The Tau are insects. The Etherial caste control their entire race through pheromones. The greater good is whatever the Etherials say it is and the Etherials mass breed millions of sterile fire caste warriors to send them to their "oh so regrettable" deaths. And funny how every human colony absorbed by the Tau has humans going extinct. What an interesting coincidence, huh?

In short, in the 40k world the other is not your friend. The other will use you, kill you, exploit you, corrupt you, or do anything and everything to ensure that you betray your own species. There is not a single Xenos species that can cohabit with humanity in 40k. Sure the Imperium is quite a collection of royal bastards but at least they're human. Their actions forward humanity, albeit by monstrous means.

What you seem to be doing is trying to make 40k into DnD. Stop. You can't. You won't be playing an eldar screaming banshee teaming up with your orc buddy and his necro pariah friend while the space marine decides which demon cult to wipe out. It doesn't work like that. Ever. Do Xenos and the Imperium work together on exceptionally rare occasions? Sure. Ghostwatch is a team of space Marines working with the Inquisition to deal with problems 'subtly'. But once the problem is dealt with 40k makes it very clear: "Purge the unclean" and that includes every alien, mutant, and heretic that doesn't match the inquisition's criteria. And that is a fact and a way of life that you accept when you play 40k. You want to mix humans with strange and exotic aliens? Play star wars. It's d20 and your GM can pretend to make it something like the grimdark of 40k. But don't pretend that it's nothing less than a cheap bastardization of the harsh and cruel setting of the original.

Incidentally, the Astartes book (for space marines) is coming out in july and the psyker book is coming out in october.

And what if we want to play as just a group of Eldar? And what if we want to play as just a group of orks? Not to mention the fact that PC's in games generally tend to be these rare exceptions you mention. Coming in and trying to tear down what my friend Caxton here, and others are trying to do is not cool. You don't like it? You don't have to contribute. Like my mother always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

[Cadian 9th]

I actually wrote up some homebrew races a while back for d20 40k. It was fun.

I made Eldar actually playable at lower levels. Despite their capabilities, they experience everything too much. If an Eldar is in combat or in some exciting circumstance, they've gotta make concentration checks and will saves or go into a rage-like state where they lose control of themselves and fall. I made kroot have +4 str but not for gear carrying or bullrushing capabilities, and I made several varaitions of humans to represent different worlds.

I'll see if I can dig it up.

Dante

[Oslecamo]

Ah, but I know what you're thinking. The Tau are good, right? "For the Greater Good" and all that? The Tau are insects. The Etherial caste control their entire race through pheromones. The greater good is whatever the Etherials say it is and the Etherials mass breed millions of sterile fire caste warriors to send them to their "oh so regrettable" deaths.

Actualy, the Tau stand out in the 40K seting because they do their best to minimize casualities of their own forces. Tau don't do "heroic" hold the lines against overwhelming forces. They pull back and shoot you from afar and keep doing it as much as necessary. The imperium is the one with trillions of lives to throw away. The Tau can't afford "oh so regrettable" deaths.

Furthermore the Tau offer you the possibility of surrender, profitable trade agreemets and the best tech in the galaxy if you join their side. The imperium of man offers you a quick death at best and a miserable slow agonizing death at worst.

So what if they're being controled by pheremones (wich hasn't been proved yet BTW)? The Tau would've wiped themselves out long ago if not for the Ethereals! The human barbarians have overwhelming resource advantage, but since their leaders order them to blindly charge into battle whitout caring for their lives, the Tau army that cares about their own not only keeps them at bay but is actualy expanding!

And funny how every human colony absorbed by the Tau has humans going extinct. What an interesting coincidence, huh?

Hmm, whot? Last time I checked there were plenty of triving humie colonies on the Tau empire. Human auxiliaries are as much a part of the Tau forces as kroot and vespids nowadays.

But once the problem is dealt with 40k makes it very clear: "Purge the unclean" and that includes every alien, mutant, and heretic that doesn't match the inquisition's criteria. And that is a fact and a way of life that you accept when you play 40k.

Go to the 40K tabletop thread in the gaming section. See all the alliances they make in team games.

You want to mix humans with strange and exotic aliens? Play star wars. It's d20 and your GM can pretend to make it something like the grimdark of 40k.

Or, instead of playing the braindead imperium, we play an eldar mercenary working with the Tau. Orks also work as mercenary if you can provide them a good fight. Tau are more than willing to make alliances. Chaos, is, well, chaos.

But don't pretend that it's nothing less than a cheap bastardization of the harsh and cruel setting of the original.

Well, funny thing is, 40K itself is a cheap bastardization of most fiction tropes out there. It's so "cruel" and "harsh" that's it's actualy funny! Power armored duded with swords, bright colors and flags tied at their backs! Orks make things go fastah just by painting them red! Imperial guard shoots his own forces before you can shoot them! Inquisition can afford vortex missiles to destroy their own planets, but the ultramarines chapter itself can't afford vortex missiles to stop that nid fleet! The space wolves made one whole chapter go traitor and they're still considered heroes! It's simply hilarious! Everybody but the Tau is long past sheer insanity!

[Dead_Jester]

As for alliances, there is a long-standing tradition of Eldars helping the puny humans when they are about to do something really stupid.

Orks (especially the Blood Axe clan) have always been ready the work for the highest bidder, as long as they can have a fight. In earlier editions, they even had human mercs.

A Chaos party can use anything except maybe Nids and Necrons, who can't be corrupted.

A Tau based party can have Eldars, Humans and Tau auxiliaries, as the Tau do have a great tradition of indoctrination.

What I really what to see is a party of Jokaero.

Of course, if this is DnD, anything can happen, and as weird as your backstory might seem, just remember that their is an official one that is already probably weirder.

[Zellic Solis]

And what if we want to play as just a group of Eldar? And what if we want to play as just a group of orks? Not to mention the fact that PC's in games generally tend to be these rare exceptions you mention. Coming in and trying to tear down what my friend Caxton here, and others are trying to do is not cool. You don't like it? You don't have to contribute. Like my mother always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Then write www.fantasyflightsgames.com and ask them for a Xenos book. Or if you'd rather not wait go ahead and come up with classes, psychic abilities, weapons and the like in the dark heresy format. The Codex books are quite handy for converting materials to the Dark Heresy system. (and incidentally, classes in Dark Heresy are rather simple to make given that they're nothing more than skills and talents. But don't try to kiddify the setting by pretending that you can mix them at will. And like my mother always said, if someone is being stupid, better point it out or they're not going to learn any better.

Now as for mixing races, if you have to, pick up rogue trader. That's basically the setting where you can include non-humans in the party. Since the free trader can operate around the authority of the Imperium you could have an Eldar Expatriate or an ork merc and not be violating the setting. One Dark Heresy game I played in using Rogue trader had two Xenos in the crew. I was a bigot. They were disdainful. It was glorious RP. Our entire party spent the better part of an hour arguing over the ethics of the Emperium completely in character.

[Lord Blace]

Then write www.fantasyflightsgames.com and ask them for a Xenos book. Or if you'd rather not wait go ahead and come up with classes, psychic abilities, weapons and the like in the dark heresy format. The Codex books are quite handy for converting materials to the Dark Heresy system. (and incidentally, classes in Dark Heresy are rather simple to make given that they're nothing more than skills and talents. But don't try to kiddify the setting by pretending that you can mix them at will. And like my mother always said, if someone is being stupid, better point it out or they're not going to learn any better.

Now as for mixing races, if you have to, pick up rogue trader. That's basically the setting where you can include non-humans in the party. Since the free trader can operate around the authority of the Imperium you could have an Eldar Expatriate or an ork merc and not be violating the setting. One Dark Heresy game I played in using Rogue trader had two Xenos in the crew. I was a bigot. They were disdainful. It was glorious RP. Our entire party spent the better part of an hour arguing over the ethics of the Emperium completely in character.

And just what, do tell, makes you the authority on things 'stupid'?

[Caxton]

The Warhammer 40k universe is a vast place, and systems that restrict you to working for the Imperium seem VERY restrictive. Furthermore, it seems that you are taking the universe way too seriously. A grim, serious, campaign can be very fun, but making that the only available option is too restrictive. As has been stated, W40k is a very stereotypical sci-fi setting. To me, these facts make the setting ripe for play using the d20 system.

I would very much like to see you help us out, Solis. However, the object of this thread is NOT to determine whether or not homebrewing a d20 Setting for W40K is desirable, but to do it. In that vein, I would like to see this thread get back to discussions of fluff and mechanics.

I could use any ideas for a system for Psykers. Blace suggested to me the use of a Seed system, but I'm not sure that's appropriate. What does everyone think?

[Cadian 9th]

No serious, Psionics works. Just make it you have to concentrate to avoid being attacked by daemons etc. Use the mishap rules for the misuse of Dojores from the XPH.

And on the whole Imperium thing. First of all, you're only talking about the devout. Most humans don't give a darm about the imperium in actual law, even if they revere the emperor. I had a campaign setting which was Medusa four, which, after a catastrophic event the planet was broken and parties of all races interacted without the first instinct being to destroy everything they meet. It was plausible. Eldar actual do work alongside humans. There's even a term for them, they're called outcasts or pirates.

Dante

[Dead_Jester]

No serious, Psionics works. Just make it you have to concentrate to avoid being attacked by daemons etc. Use the mishap rules for the misuse of Dojores from the XPH.

It's not even that much of a risk since after the Age of Strife, all sanctioned Psykers (the one that actually use their powers) pass through the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and the weak willed are weaded out (or fed to the Emperor). Only during Chaos intrusions or serious warp tearing is it normally possible for trained Psykers to be possessed. As for untrained Psykers, then the risks are higher.

And on the whole Imperium thing. First of all, you're only talking about the devout. Most humans don't give a darm about the imperium in actual law, even if they revere the emperor. I had a campaign setting which was Medusa four, which, after a catastrophic event the planet was broken and parties of all races interacted without the first instinct being to destroy everything they meet. It was plausible. Eldar actual do work alongside humans. There's even a term for them, they're called outcasts or pirates.

Dante

Yes but in that example, none of the important factions of the Imperium are in play (Inquisition and Adeptus Astartes). Those factions absolutely refuse to work with Xenos, unless their survival depends on it (and even then, they refuse sometimes). Eldars help humans when it helps ensue their own survival. They would sacrifice millions of human lives if it could save a single of theirs. As for the pirates, they only help them because it's profitable for them, and have not real loyalty towards the "lesser" races.

[Dead_Jester]

No serious, Psionics works. Just make it you have to concentrate to avoid being attacked by daemons etc. Use the mishap rules for the misuse of Dojores from the XPH.

It's not even that much of a risk since after the Age of Strife, all sanctioned Psykers (the one that actually use their powers) pass through the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and the weak willed are weaded out (or fed to the Emperor). Only during Chaos intrusions or serious warp tearing is it normally possible for trained Psykers to be possessed. As for untrained Psykers, then the risks are higher.

And on the whole Imperium thing. First of all, you're only talking about the devout. Most humans don't give a darm about the imperium in actual law, even if they revere the emperor. I had a campaign setting which was Medusa four, which, after a catastrophic event the planet was broken and parties of all races interacted without the first instinct being to destroy everything they meet. It was plausible. Eldar actual do work alongside humans. There's even a term for them, they're called outcasts or pirates.

Dante

Yes but in that example, none of the important factions of the Imperium are in play (Inquisition and Adeptus Astartes). Those factions absolutely refuse to work with Xenos, unless their survival depends on it (and even then, they refuse sometimes). Eldars help humans when it helps ensue their own survival. They would sacrifice millions of human lives if it could save a single of theirs. As for the pirates, they only help them because it's profitable for them, and have not real loyalty towards the "lesser" races.

However, it still represents one of the best scenarios for getting a diverse party together (the others one being a Tyranid or Necron invasion).