Jade Phoenix Mage build

[ZiggZagg]

Good afternoon, everyone! I am looking for ideas and/or information on building a Jade Pheonix Mage. The idea of the character is I want them to able to hold their own in melee without sacrificing too much of their spellcasting. The spellcasting classes I am interested in building it with are Bard, Beguiler, and Sorcerer. The basis is I want a tricky fighter. Make good use of crowd control spells and buff/debuff spells while also being decent in melee. Not sure if this is at all possible, but just thought I would ask, as I love the idea of a class that takes both initiator level and caster level forward. Anyway, thanks for any assistance rendered. Catch you all later

[PId6]

Sorcerer 4/Crusader 1/Mindbender 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Abjurant Champion 4

Take Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer) early on, and take Mindsight at 6th. If the campaign is going through lower levels, just go straight into Jade Phoenix Mage. If it's likely going to higher levels, you'll want to stagger Abjurant Champion levels with Jade Phoenix Mage so that you get the highest level maneuvers you can.

Unfortunately, since you're using Sorcerer rather than Wizard, you won't be able to get 9th level spells by 20th level. However, you can rectify this using Dragonwrought Kobold. Greater Draconic Rite of Passage lets you get 9th level spells, while Loredrake makes up for all the lost caster levels.

[gorfnab]

Bard 6/ Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8 - gets you at 20 - 9th level spells, 17 BAB, and IL 16. You could consider going with Dragonfire Inspiration and pump you Inspire Courage as much as possible.

[Escheton]

I am rather partial to the lenghty factotum/warblade/wizard/JPM
Mad skills and tricky, Int is everything. Got actual decent stats? Even better.

factotum3/warblade2/wizard3/JPM works rather well. Though you don't really need the second warblade lvl but it keeps the lvls together and the xp penalty away. You just mix and match the lvls how you want them. Though obviously you start with factotem.
This build allows you to trip and bullrush well without the feats. Have a good chance of being first to act in combat. And be awesome at str and dex skills. (with the nimble fingers feat you can even make your int based trapmonkey skills work off dex for double the fun)
It allows you to be the skillguy, even the trapguy, the (slightly gimped) arcanist. And the bsfighter. You wont be spell-batman. You won't be the best rogue in then world. You won't be the " I charge, it's dead-guy"
But you can hold your own in almost every situation. Max-min instead of min-max.

[Runestar]

Crusader is generally considered a better choice here because it recovers its maneuver automatically, and so will not compete with the rest of JPM's class features for the precious swift actions.

[Escheton]

A warblade on the other hand can use the maneuvers he has when he wants them. Not because he lucked out.
And he can use it again after next round. The crusader has to wait till he basicly did everything else as well.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Crusader is better, with Extra Granted Maneuver you're guaranteed access to all your readied maneuvers every three rounds, with no time spent recovering anything. If you have at least three maneuvers you'd want to use every round, you're guaranteed to be able to use all three of those every three rounds. The only random variable is sometimes what order you get to use them in.

[nekomata2]

Crusader also already has access to Devoted Spirit, so you don't have to waste JPM maneuvers learning a lower level DS maneuver so you can qualify for the better ones. Personally, I hate they only get access to DS and Desert Wind....

[ZiggZagg]

I will say that Crusader sounds better from an optimization standpoint. Not sure if it fits the idea of the character in my head, but I will look at it again. As for the build with the bard, would it work to put in battle sorcerer? Sorcerers seem to have a little bit better spell list to pull from at times, at least when just looking at core spells. Would you still make it to 9th level spells and everything? I don't happen to have my books on me at the moment to check

[Eldariel]

Crusader is better, with Extra Granted Maneuver you're guaranteed access to all your readied maneuvers every three rounds, with no time spent recovering anything. If you have at least three maneuvers you'd want to use every round, you're guaranteed to be able to use all three of those every three rounds. The only random variable is sometimes what order you get to use them in.

I'd contest that Crusader is invariably superior, though in this case, the fact that it gives access to Devoted Spirit makes it so; DS is absolute key for JPM since Desert Wind is mediocre to go with magic, but Devoted Spirit offers a lot in terms of versatile offense you'd want from ToB.

However, outside these specific circumstances, having access to the one maneuver you want in that particular scenario at the start of the fight outweighs free recovery; fights lasting over 3 rounds with you using maneuvers every turn isn't all that common, and generally first round contains decisive action so not having access to the key maneuver then can actually be hugely detrimental to your ultimate efficiency while having to spend a round recovering isn't so bad if it means you'll have exactly the maneuver you need again.

That, and Warblade has access to Diamond Mind, Iron Heart & Tiger Claw against Crusader's Devoted Spirit, combined a far, far superior selection of maneuvers (though I'd argue Diamond Mind alone wins there; indeed, the Crusader's greatest weakness is not getting Diamond Mind) compared to Crusader. So as a sweeping statement, I do not see Crusader being invariably better; however, again, for a Devoted Spirit-based class you'll want the prerequisites to pick up the ringers in the school relatively cheaply; starting from 0 with Warblade-base wouldn't be so good (though having access to Iron Heart Surge to get rid of AMFs is obviously rather useful to a Gish).