Two Incarnum Questions

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I was perusing MoI today, and came upon a couple things I thought I'd run by the Playground.

First, the Therapeutic Mantle soulmeld heals you extra HP equal to spell level * 2 × essentia when you're targeted by a spell that heals HP. If a spell gives fast healing (the two top picks probably being lesser vigor or incarnum vigor), would that add to every round's healing, or just add the HP once overall? One the one hand, it seems that the Mantle would add HP with each application of healing; on the other, it's all coming from one spell. Thoughts?


Second, I noticed an interesting, if strange, combo in the form of the soul boon and wrathful doom spells.

The creature touched gains 1 point of temporary essentia for every three caster levels, to a maximum of 5 points of essentia at caster level 15th.

Each round on your turn, beginning on the round in which you cast this spell, your opponent takes damage equal to the amount of essentia in his essentia pool (up to a maximum value equal to your caster level) and is dazed for 1 round. A successful Will save halves the damage dealt and negates the daze effect; this save must be repeated each round that the spell lasts.

An extended soul boon is 3rd or 4th level depending on the class, duration 2 minutes, Will negates, and wrathful doom is 6th level, duration CL rounds, Will partial. Usually the spell is useless because it only targets incarnum-using opponents, and with this combo the damage is negligible, but essentially (ha ha) with this you can grant any opponent an essentia pool and then daze them for up to the full spell duration, dealing at least 1 damage on a successful save which can be useful in various ways (it could be combined with one of the various "when X takes/deals damage..." effects, force Concentration checks to cast in conjunction with skill check penalties, etc.). It's only really effective at daze-locking low-Will foes, but even giving enemy casters a 5% chance every round to lose their turn sounds pretty good.

So would this be at all useful, do you think, or is it good for humor value and nothing else?

[Keld Denar]

Lesser Vigor doesn't heal you. It grants you the special ability that grants fast healing.

Also, Soul Boon is Will Negates (Harmless).

(harmless)
The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires.

So the target would be allowed a save vs it, on top of the save allowed for Wrathful Doom. So...you got 2 spells to do piddly damage with a small chance to stun.

I'll take my chances with Phantasmal Killer or something. Its got better saves and only takes 1 action...and Phantasmal Killer isn't even that good of a kill spell.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Lesser Vigor doesn't heal you. It grants you the special ability that grants fast healing.

So fast healing wouldn't count as healing at all for Therapeutic Mantle, then?

Also, Soul Boon is Will Negates (Harmless).

So the target would be allowed a save vs it, on top of the save allowed for Wrathful Doom. So...you got 2 spells to do piddly damage with a small chance to stun.

I'll take my chances with Phantasmal Killer or something. Its got better saves and only takes 1 action...and Phantasmal Killer isn't even that good of a kill spell.

I noted the double saves already, and I realize this isn't an effective combo, just an amusing one. "I imbue you with the power of souls and then use it to screw you over" and all that. That's one vote for not even good enough to use for kicks and giggles.

[Keld Denar]

The spell isn't healing you, the ability is. The spell is only giving you the condition. Therefore, no.

And while amusing to consider in an abstract environment like a forum, I don't think I'd ever try it in a game. Maybe thats just me.

[KillianHawkeye]

It might be worth it if you can increase the chance of a successful dazing.

[Optimystik]

Keld is right - the Vigor line doesn't actually heal you itself.

I agree that it's kind of quirky and interesting, but is more of an annoyance than a true kill spell.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Well, darn on the fast healing. That might actually have been useful.

[Eurus]

Yeah, Therapeutic Mantle + Lesser Vigor is a no-go. Darts of Life works pretty well with it, though. Or Positive Energy Aura.

[Keld Denar]

Still, either you are Quickening it (and thus blowing 2 6th level spells, one of which has the save of a 2nd level spell), or you are blowing 2 standard actions. Oh, and Soul Boon is touch range, meaning you have to get up close and personal to use it.

Contrast to Illusory Pit (Illusion6, SpC). It dazes for at least one round, possibly more if you concentrate. Oh, and it only takes 1 round to set up.

Only drawback is that it can't be used on flying creatures and its [Mind Affecting]. Still, only 1 save to prevent it, instead of 2.