Monk Evasion Substitution?

[Viktre]

Ok so here's the deal, the build I'm working on gives me Evasion from another class later on and I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to trade off the original Evasion from monk for another feat. No need to double up.

[Amphetryon]

Ok so here's the deal, the build I'm working on gives me Evasion from another class later on and I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to trade off the original Evasion from monk for another feat. No need to double up.

Complete Mage has Spell Reflection, allowing the redirection of a spell that misses you. It's fairly lousy, but it's not a duplicate ability.

[Snake-Aes]

Ok so here's the deal, the build I'm working on gives me Evasion from another class later on and I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to trade off the original Evasion from monk for another feat. No need to double up.

Akin to uncanny dodge, evasion usually lets a second evasion become Improved Evasion. See if you can do that :p

[Thurbane]

Exemplars of Evil (p.21) lets you trade it for the Feign Death ability...can be quite handy in certain situations.

[PId6]

Akin to uncanny dodge, evasion usually lets a second evasion become Improved Evasion. See if you can do that :p

No, it usually doesn't. It's a reasonable houserule, but I don't think I've seen a single printed instance of Evasion becoming Improved Evasion by gaining it twice.

[Viktre]

Yeah I've not seen anything like that either and I've done some looking. What's the benefit of Feign Death?

[Thurbane]

Yeah I've not seen anything like that either and I've done some looking. What's the benefit of Feign Death?

As an immediate action, you enter a catatonic like state that fools people into thinking you're dead. You gain a bunch of immunities while in this state, including mind-affecting abilities, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, ability drain, negative levels, and death effects.

[Ferrin]

Exemplars of Evil has the Feign Death ability, as said earlier, and also the Invisible Fist ability.

Feign Death lets you appear dead, invisible fist let's you be invisible 1/3 rounds.

[Viktre]

Exemplars of Evil has the Feign Death ability, as said earlier, and also the Invisible Fist ability.

Feign Death lets you appear dead, invisible fist let's you be invisible 1/3 rounds.

Kind of liking that Invisible Fist ability. Are you saying I can swap that for my Evasion? And if so how many times a day can you use it?

[Viktre]

Any other subs that you guys can think of? I mean I really like the benefit of the Invisible Fist, but I have to make sure my DM will go for it. Any others that are in sources that are easier for a DM to swallow?

[Mongoose87]

Where is your other evasion coming from?

[Viktre]

The PrC Master Thrower 2nd level gives Evasion. I want to get Master Thrower 3 and I already had Evasion. I figured the Monk would have more substitutions available than the MT.

[Trouvere]

No, it usually doesn't. It's a reasonable houserule, but I don't think I've seen a single printed instance of Evasion becoming Improved Evasion by gaining it twice.

Master Thrower (CW) and Dungeon Delver (CA). I'd not be at all surprised if the authors and proofreaders were thinking of uncanny dodge when they wrote these, but there we go.

Ironic then, that MT is the very PrC from which the OP's character gains the second evasion.

[Viktre]

Master Thrower (CW) and Dungeon Delver (CA). I'd not be at all surprised if the authors and proofreaders were thinking of uncanny dodge when they wrote these, but there we go.

Ironic then, that MT is the very PrC from which the OP's character gains the second evasion.

Indeed, but where one works in that way isn't it surprising that the other does not? Makes you wonder why other features don't work the same way.

[candycorn]

Evasion's not a feat?

[Viktre]

Evasion's not a feat?

Touche good sir and point taken.

[Ferrin]

Kind of liking that Invisible Fist ability. Are you saying I can swap that for my Evasion? And if so how many times a day can you use it?

It's useable at will once every 3 rounds, for further info please look into the Exemplars of Evil copy on your PCbookshelf.

[Trouvere]

Indeed, but where one works in that way isn't it surprising that the other does not? Makes you wonder why other features don't work the same way.

Perhaps MT and DD were conceptually intended to grant Improved Evasion, because of their likely entry classes. They could/should then have been written, for example, "Beginning at 4th level, a Dungeon Delver gains improved evasion; if he doesn't already have evasion, he gains this ability now instead." But perhaps because it was easier to do a copy/paste/replace, the ability ended up being written using language that mimicked the stacking of uncanny dodges ("gain evasion; if you already have it, gain improved evasion"). Though mechanically the outcome is the same no matter which way the ability is phrased, the way it was printed we're left with the impression that some evasions are better than others, even though that was never the intention.

It would be completely according to plan, then, that a Rogue 2 / Monk 2 / Ranger 9 / Shadowdancer 2, for instance, would still have just plain ordinary evasion, despite gaining it 4 times over, while a single class Rogue can have Improved Evasion at 10th, and a Master Thrower at ECL 7.

Or they just messed up with those two PrCs.