Dragon PrC help?

[Rosalinath]

Does anyone know the name of the dragon prc from draconomicon that revolves around purely defence? It required +20 Natural Armor if that helps.

And on to the more important item on my list: How would someone apply said prc to a playable pc? I was hoping to work with my dm to aqquire this and he said that I could ignore the dragon type requirement, and that if I had the tattoos applied slowly (i.e. taking long periods of agony and possible ability damage/drain) I could take it without the huge Nat armor bonus.

Knowing this what would people recomend that I do with this? for the actual build I was thinking of either playing a dragon shaman/Dragon Prc or a changling Rogue/Warshaper 2/Dragon Prc. Of course these are just ideas and I'm open to any ideas or criticism that u all may have for me and/or my ideas

[Optimystik]

Hidecarved Dragon, pg. 94.

As for playing it, the PrC specifically states Half-dragons can take it too. (It also doesn't specify "true dragon" therefore creatures that count as dragons should be able to take it as well.)

[Rosalinath]

thank u very much and yes the dragon type is rather easy to get in that situation. the really problem however is getting the huge bonus to natural armor without going into epic. Plus the LA alone to achieve this makes me want to cry

[Paul H]

Hi

Why not just go the Pathfinder route of Sorceror 1/Paladin 4/Dragon Disciple?

No LA to worry about, Smite Evil is MUCH more powerful now. So, in Form of the (Large) Dragon you can add your Cha mod to all attacks, and your Paladin level to all damage, until either you or your victim go down. You also gain cha mod as bonus to deflection.

Looks more flexible, though it doesn't have the extreme Nat Armour bonus you mentioned. (Only +11 in Lge Dragon Form).

Thanks
Paul H

[ProfMoriarty]

Let's see, not sure if the natural armor bonuses can stack like this, but here are some decent +natural armor templates.

NA LA
+8 +2 Crucian Race (Sandstorm)
+6 +1 Feral Template (Savage Species)
+3 +1 Mineral Warrior Template (Underdark)
+2 +1 Half-Minotaur (DR 313)

Throw on the Improved Natural Armor feat from the srd for 20 natural armor in 5 LA.

You'll still need 6 dips in classes with good will saves to get that base will save 12 required by the PrC

[Rosalinath]

I like the idea and will look into it. The problem is that I may or may not actually be looking to make this character focused around dragonoids, though the dragon shaman thing is still in the back of my head.

That is very true ProMo the requirements are killing me here. I might just get a wizard to polymorph me into a creature with the proper natural armor bonus. As for will saves my dm has said that he see's the requirement as a nessecity for the actual carving process and that its the entire will save bonus, not just the base save. This means I can just boost up my save for the actual ritual. This of course might not work at all >.<

Is there anything that could be suggested to me that would grant me natural weapons that are effective in combat? I'm thinking about making the pc unarmoured but with natural armor, natural weapons, and focus all my resources into dps while hidecarved dragon assists my defense.

A bit of background information: this pc will be a backup character for when/if my wizard/malconvoker is killed. Generally the party consists of 3 people, with me gennerally being the focus of the enemies attention. The DM likes to push us to our limits, killing off 4 characters in total for the low optimization that they had at that time. I'm expecting to die in the next session because we're moving into the climax of the first part of the campaign, which has a time skip after it.

anything else? I need the help, I'm not used to making this type of pc so its all soooo confusing

[Paul H]

Hi

As I said earlier - Sorceror/Paladin/Dragon Disciple.

Sorcerors with Draconic background can grow claws as free action. Lasts 3+cha mod rnds/day. They gain Nat Armour at later levels, plus uber Dragon Disciple bonuses.

Paladin's there for Smite, bonus to saves, BAB, Healing, etc.

Pathfinder has a lot of hidden gems.......

Thanks
Paul H
PS What level char are you?

[Glimbur]

Is there anything that could be suggested to me that would grant me natural weapons that are effective in combat? I'm thinking about making the pc unarmoured but with natural armor, natural weapons, and focus all my resources into dps while hidecarved dragon assists my defense.

Totemist, a base class from Magic of Incarnum, is all about having natural weapons and killing stuff. You'd have to learn how to Incarnum, but that's doable. A larger barrier might be getting the book.

I'd second the people asking why you want to take Hidecarved Dragon, it's difficult to get in to as you are finding out.

[ProfMoriarty]

As for will saves my dm has said that he see's the requirement as a nessecity for the actual carving process and that its the entire will save bonus, not just the base save. This means I can just boost up my save for the actual ritual. This of course might not work at all >.<

Boosting will saves isn't too difficult, depending on your restrictions. Iron will will get you a +2 to will saves and is also requried for the PrC, a cloak of resistance +N is always good, Superior resistance (Spell Compendium) grants you +6 to saves for 24 hours, get an 11th level wizard/druid to cast it on you for 660gp. Owl's Wisdom is an obvious choice but very temporary so it may not work out. Owl's Insight (Spell Compendium) will cost 50gp*caster level but gives +1/2 caster level as an insight bonus to wisdom for 1 hour, that's about 200gp or 4 caster levels per will save bonus. Definitely a lot of choice here, probably better ones than I have mentioned.

Is there anything that could be suggested to me that would grant me natural weapons that are effective in combat? I'm thinking about making the pc unarmoured but with natural armor, natural weapons, and focus all my resources into dps while hidecarved dragon assists my defense.

Totemist is the best natural weapon user period, getting multiple natural attacks including 4 claws, bite, gore, and wings(a dragon magazine soulmeld). I haven't had a chance to play one but it has a lot of options.

The feral template already grants you natural claws, which are very decent 1d8 for medium, though you would be large with half-minotaur granting 2d6 base claw damage. Improved natural attack only improves that to 2d8, following the savage species claw damage progression. Get a totemist to improve that damage dice to a more attractive 4d6 (average: 14 damage). Alternatively go Psychic Warrior for Expansion and boost yourself two size categories further.

Another option for natural attacks is the Feathered Wings graft from Fiend Folio, get a fly speed and wing attacks from an evil fiend for 10,000gp. There are also draconic grafts in Dragon Magic but they aren't as good.

[Rosalinath]

I'll look into totemist I completely forgot about incarnum

And the reason i wish to use this class is because of all the defensive items its gives. SR, DR N/-, Energy Immunities, Death Ward...All very useful. Plus it has all good saves and fighter BaB

[Runestar]

Dragonwrought kobolds can easily qualify for disciple of ashardalon. And best of all, the prcs don't trigger epic bab rules, so a dragonwrought kobold fighter18/disciple12 has bab+30.

Only problem is the class' borked caster lv progression. Caster lv = prc lv? Who is going to be affected by a caster12 blasphemy at epic lvs?