Druid + Vow of Poverty

[Karoht]

Okay, so I rolled up a Druid recently for a campaign (starting level is 4) and I wanted to add a bit of flavor to the experience of Druid. I was considering doing Vow of Poverty, since all the spell components for Druid are cheap and easy to find rather than buying.

So I wanted to know, what do I really need to know about Vow of Poverty and the Druid class. Where is VoP going to hurt me, and what are some simple solutions to common problems I might encounter? I also want a good suggestion of where I should toss my share of the gold.


Class Progression:
Straight Druid, though I'm considering some Lion of Talisid (mostly for fun, and the character is a 'wild' character anyway). Nothing super fancy here but open to suggestions that will work with VoP.


Skills:
I'm taking a high survival, mostly so I can feed myself easily enough. Other than that, any Knowledges/Professions I should pick up? I want to stay in the vein of being self sufficient as possible. I'm not concerned if this gimps some other skills.
IE-Sense Motive being rather low making me very nieve, which works for the character as he's been sheltered in the Wilderness and has very little concept of lying. Part of also why he's parting with his money so easily, as he sees little reason in having any.


Distribution of Wealth:
Family back home, donation to his particular sect of Druids, poor and empoverished in the local area...
I wonder, could he purchase land and maintain it as a wildlife/druid preserve? It would technically belong to the Druids and be maintained by them and any Rangers they could hire to maintain the area.


Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I on crack? Discuss!

[woodenbandman]

Any possible power concerns will arise from the fact that you're a druid, not from the fact that you have vow of poverty, and if any concerns do arise, it will be because you are OVERpowered, not underpowered.

In short, vow of poverty is 100% fine on a druid, and in fact it's kinda nice to not have to buy wild armor and wilding clasps.

[Karoht]

I'm not concerned with being OP, as I'm typically the 'weakest' party member in any group I play in. That, and I'm already aware that someone else is planning on a particularly broken progression as well, and it's already cleared with the DM, as is my VoP. If I turn out being OP I'll be quite surprised.

Is there a GP value on Wooden Armor if I carve it myself? For purpose of casting the Ironwood spell on it and the like. Or would that be a no-no?

[Snake-Aes]

The premise of VoP is that you don't keep anything for yourself. I wouldn't break your vow because you made someone else an ironwood sword.

[Optimystik]

If you plan to wear it then it will break your vow. But making things for the other party members is fine, so long as you don't buy the components to create them.

And yes, for a druid VoP is fine.

[Karoht]

Sounds like woodworking might be worth picking up then. Handy if the party ever ends up losing/breaking equipment.

Point of Character Development:
Loves woodworking. Will not cut down a tree or cut off a limb (other than simple pruning), so either people need to bring him wood, or he has to be able to find it as deadfall. Treestumps are fair game.

[Coplantor]

VoP is not always a good choice since magic items more often than not are needed. But, you have two good things going for you, 1, druid is one of the most versatile and harder to make an undepowered one, so VoP wont really affect him, and 2, if it is a low op campaign, then the only problem is that you ARE, in fact, a druid

(You also have the advantage of not having to worry about gear and all that stuff wich can be pretty tedious)

[Snake-Aes]

Sounds like woodworking might be worth picking up then. Handy if the party ever ends up losing/breaking equipment.

See if you can own a carving knife first.

[Telonius]

Biggest problems with VoP:

- Leaves most characters with no means of flight other than castings by friendly mages.
- WBL is worth more than the bonuses VoP gives.
- Roleplay concerns, i.e., can fall faster and harder than a Paladin.

As a Druid, you have taken care of the first two of those. If you need to fly, turn into a bird. And I would guess that the bonuses you can get by shapechanging exceed the bonuses a typical Fighter would get through WBL. (Haven't actually seen those numbers crunched, but I'd be very surprised if you couldn't do better than WBL given all the different sorts of critters you can change into).

The only big concern remaining is the Roleplay aspect of it, and that really depends on how strict your DM is going to be.

As for distribution of wealth, have him donate it all to Greenpeace, a startup organization of pacifist orcs, lizardfolk, and goblinoids.

[molten_dragon]

Druid is one of the few classes that vow of poverty actually works quite well for. It's probably still not as good as magic items, but its much closer. Your biggest issue will probably be that you can't equip your animal companion.

[Prodan]

See if you can own a carving knife first.

Claws. And animal companions with claws.

[Snake-Aes]

Claws. And animal companions with claws.

True, but that also falls on the category because if your dm is a jerk he'll have you pay a wildshape whenever you manifest the damn claws.

[Morph Bark]

Well at least you're not making it a Gestalt Druid//Totemist, so if you don't play it completely to the levels of power some do, you'll be fine.

[Jorda75]

Druid is an amazing class for VOP, even at low levels you can turn a bunch of berries into a healing item easily and with your ability to Summon Nature's Ally at will you have access to all sorts of spells and healing abilities as well.

The best benefit for a VOP druid in my opinion is that you no longer have to worry about your items melding into your form when you wild shape, no wilding clasps or taking your items off and putting them back on. Just wild shape and go to town!

[Jack_Simth]

See if you can own a carving knife first.

Simple weapons are permitted. Use a dagger, and if need be, soak the -2 for "improvised tools".

But really, take Natural Spell at 6th, prioritize Wisdom and Con (in that order), and you should do fine with a small amount of experimentation ... so long as your DM doesn't try to make you Fall.

[Karoht]

Claws. And animal companions with claws.

Keep piece of wood shaped like a knife.
Cast Iron Wood. Not usable until later levels, but still.
Also, one can carry the talon of a larger animal (perhaps a bear) or the sharpened tooth of an animal, and use that. Comes from a fallen creature, might even be important to the character. Or he could constantly pick up new claws/teeth and use them ad hoc.
Wood isn't that tough that one desparately requires steel to cut it. Woodcarving can be done with a nail file. In fact, rough surfaces are what prisoners use to make shivs in prison. Might take longer with the improvised tool though, but the time aspect I'm not worried about. Why would the fellow feel rushed to work on his side hobby? Still I wonder how the DM will rule on that.

Of course if the DM rules that an animal claw/tooth customized in such a fashion represents an object of wealth (and due to the custom nature, counts it the same GP cost as a knife or dagger) yeah, then I have a problem.


But see, this is why I brought this sort of stuff up in a thread. I would never have thought of the carving/whittling knife thing as an issue. I totally took it for granted. Thanks for pointing it out.

Well at least you're not making it a Gestalt Druid//Totemist, so if you don't play it completely to the levels of power some do, you'll be fine.

For the record, I'm not going to play that combo in this campaign.

...But I'm going to research it now for another campaign later down the road...

[Il_Vec]

Roleplaying Exalted Neutral Good, on the other hand... Can be a pain. Varies on DM, of course, but write down those exalted things to keep in mind while roleplaying.

[Optimator]

Roleplaying Exalted Neutral Good, on the other hand... Can be a pain. Varies on DM, of course, but write down those exalted things to keep in mind while roleplaying.

Exactly. I would never recommend taking VoP for "the power", but because you actually want to roleplay an Exalted ascetic. That said, the Druid can pull it off better than any other class.

[Evard]

Look into the Unearthed Arcana variants for the Druid :D there are some fun things there :D

VoP works well with the variant and it can give you a more wild feeling without the classic "rawr i'm a bear"

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...AspectOfNature

[Munchkin-Masher]

1. Use the Vow of Poverty that Doesn't Suck
2. Go Master of Many Forms after level 5
3. Get huge bonuses in your already powerfull wildshape forms.
4. Take Frozen Wildshape to get Cryo-Hydra form
5. 15 Breath weapons in 1 standard Action
6. Make DM cry.
7. Eat delicious Cake.
8. ???
9. Profit!!!

Edit: Use your 15 Bite attacks instead seeing how they now have deal 2d8+11(str)+5(enchantment)+1d6(fire)+1d6(cold)+1d6 (Lightning)+1d6(acid)

Also I seem to have invented the 15 headed hydra. Use 12 Heads instead.

[Karoht]

1. Use the Vow of Poverty that Doesn't Suck
2. Go Master of Many Forms after level 5
3. Get huge bonuses in your already powerfull wildshape forms.
4. Take Frozen Wildshape to get Cryo-Hydra form
5. 15 Breath weapons in 1 standard Action
6. Make DM cry.
7. Eat delicious Cake.
8. ???
9. Profit!!!

Okay, I'll admit I wrote that down in the event I need to make a DM cry. I don't think many DM's would figure that out until it's too late. But I won't be doing that particular progression this go round methinks. Also, I think I'll keep to the standard Vow of Poverty, though that particular variant does deserve a read when I get more time.

And for the record, I bake a pretty awesome cake, without 15 breath weapons.

[Eldariel]

1. Use the Vow of Poverty that Doesn't Suck
2. Go Master of Many Forms after level 5
3. Get huge bonuses in your already powerfull wildshape forms.
4. Take Frozen Wildshape to get Cryo-Hydra form
5. 15 Breath weapons in 1 standard Action
6. Make DM cry.
7. Eat delicious Cake.
8. ???
9. Profit!!!

You need Assume Supernatural Ability to gain Cryohydra's breath weapon.

[Il_Vec]

You need Assume Supernatural Ability to gain Cryohydra's breath weapon.

Doesn't Master of many forms provide that?

[Munchkin-Masher]

Doesn't Master of many forms provide that?

Nope.

But with the Revised Vow of Poverty i linked, the bite attacks are actually better than the breath-weapons anyway. (Except for the fact that breath hits more targets.)

(Over 9000 ninja edits for wildly anachronistic Spelling)

[Eldariel]

Doesn't Master of many forms provide that?

It only gives Ex abilities; same as Enhance Wild Shape. Breath weapons are Su. And it's actually possible to make the Breaths deal more damage, but I won't delve there.

[Il_Vec]

I hate being away from my books.

[TechnOkami]

Oh vow of poverty... especially fun if you're a monk... especially fun if you're a dire werewolf... (with ridiculous strength...) especially fun if you're chaotic good... (yes I know it usually doesn't work, but I got around it) (:D)

[Munchkin-Masher]

Oh vow of poverty... especially fun if you're a monk... especially fun if you're a dire werewolf... (with ridiculous strength...) especially fun if you're chaotic good... (yes I know it usually doesn't work, but I got around it) (:D)

It's even more fun when you're a War Troll with 43 Str and +5 Enchantment to all your attacks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you're going into Master of Many Forms you'd be better off starting with Wild Shape Ranger than Druid, even with VoP. Starting out as a Druid you may as well stick with that, your combination of spellcasting and Wild Shape and Animal Companion is going to be better than narrowing your options by focusing on only one of the three.

Spending your limited skill points on RP-skills is extremely suboptimal. You should definitely try to keep max ranks in Spot, Listen, Survival, and Kn: Nature, with enough ranks in Concentration and Handle Animal to always succeed and then put extra points into something like Heal. Hide and Move Silently are also great to have. Start out Human to have VoP at level 1, get Nymph's Kiss as your first bonus exalted feat, and put a 12 or 14 on Int if you can afford it, and you may have enough skill points for an RP skill like Craft: Whittling. You should stick to softer woods and use your teeth despite VoP allowing you to own and carry simple weapons like a dagger or knife.

Your next bonus exalted feat should be Celestial Companion, and at 3rd level get Natural Bond (CV). At 4th level you can get a Celestial Dire Eagle (RoS) as your companion, and its 6th and 9th HD feats should also be Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty, which it will have when you hit 7th level. You could even dip one level into Beastmaster (CV) if you want your companion to be doing most of your fighting while you stick to spellcasting or RP.

[aeauseth]

Our group has a Druid + Vow of Poverty. She's the 2nd most powerful character in our group and she's only been playing for 1 year (total DnD experience). If she were more experienced she'd be the most powerful character.

The networth for VoP is unclear, so we have a houserule of 100gp. That allows her to have a rope, sling, backpack, hammer, pitons, etc. We even allowed her to use a wooden shield, although at level 9 she rarely (make that never) is in human form anymore.

She loves the fleshraker form. Casting spells when necessary, taking a bite, claw, claw, tail when in melee (don't forget the poison). Great AC, decent HP. She's so powerful that she leaves her animal companion at home, too complicated for her to run it I guess. Great spells, I mean grapple at range via a spell, OMG. The lich we slaughtered didn't stand a chance, he lost initiative, got grappled and couldn't cast any spells.

I've always thought Druids were a weaker class, but I've changed my mind. If played right they can be a powerhouse.