Star Wars Saga Edition Challenge

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

Hey everyone,

I am currently thinking about bringing a fun little twist into a high level star wars campaign I have been playing in. The character concept is very simple, The Master Chief. For those of you who are also fans of the Halo series the end of the 3rd installment resulted in the Chief and Cortana coming out of slip space into an unknown planet...a planet I will name during this campaign and chart its location as being a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

So I have a build idea but its not complete and I definitely want it to be The Chief in his full glory(aka optimized for those of you who are metaphorically impaired) Right now I am thinking something along the lines of 7 Soldier/10 Elite Trooper/3 Gunslinger. Taking the armor specialist talents along with gun club and ??? something else for soldier. Then moving into allowing a full triple attack to be taken at no penalty by using the multi-attack profeciency talents available to both the Elite trooper and the Gunslinger. Adding the critical mastery rifle talent as well as one other that can be selected from elite trooper or gunslinger.

This is just an idea though which focuses only on rifles. While the chief can use any weapon to deadly effect. I was thinking maybe implant training with the combat implant to cover that but he would still be just amazing at rifles. So here is the challenge. Beat my build to make the chief as best as you can. Races, talents, feat suggestions. PrC's etc. In the end the goal is a merchant of death just as effective at shooting you at any range, chucking grenades at you from across the planet, or just smacking you in the teeth with the butt of his rifle.

[Mando Knight]

Well, most of it's technological. To me, he seems like a straight up Soldier 7/Elite Trooper X, with over blown base stats that would put a Gen'Dai to shame. The shields are covered by either the shield armor mod from Scum and Villainy, or the portable shields from KotOR. The armor is basically powered armor, possibly Heavy but likely Medium, given that he's generally shown to be rather dextrous. Likely not bes'kar, given his vulnerability to Energy Swords.

Because of that, beyond Gun Club he's likely got the Armor talents, up to Improved Armored Defense and Juggernaut (meaning that he's got Gun Club, AD, IAD, and Juggernaut as his three Soldier talents). Exotic Weapon Mastery is a must (seems to be an instant expert at the Covenant weapons), and comes from his Elite Trooper levels.

The problem comes with the weapons. SW blasters are better than Halo directed energy weapons, enough so that slugthrowers are a rarity in military combat. Thus, there aren't stats for roughly 90% of the UNSC weapons (the Spartan Laser is likely a Blaster Cannon, though), and are severely undercut by the sheer superiority of blaster weapons anyway ('cept for the aforementioned Laser, as well as the Rocket Launcher), which is severely "off" compared to the power levels in Halo weapons.

He's good, but not level 20 good. Level 20 is Yoda/Revan/Palpatine level, and I don't see a Spartan, even John-117, being that good. Even the world-slammin' missile-spammin' Samus Aran would probably only be around level 16 at most.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

Hm, Interesting points indeed. Updates on my own findings as well. The advanced Cybernetics in the Galaxy at War source would account for the Spartan Augmentation process. I was also looking into the variety of second wind feats/talents as well from Rebellion Era and other books. And it happens that this is a 20th level running campaign. So just for ****s and giggles lets say the Chief is indeed 20th and go from there.

[Bharg]

Don't forget the jump servos for the ridiculous moon jumps and give him sticky thermal detonators.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

sticky thermal detonators.

Is that a thing??? If so...where haha

[Bharg]

No, it's not. But it would be fun!

[Trixie]

So I have a build idea but its not complete and I definitely want it to be The Chief in his full glory(aka optimized for those of you who are metaphorically impaired) Right now I am thinking something along the lines of 7 Soldier/10 Elite Trooper/3 Gunslinger.

Level 5-6 at best, IMHO. 8 is pushing it. Compare to canonic characters and you'll see why.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

Level 5-6 at best, IMHO. 8 is pushing it. Compare to canonic characters and you'll see why.

Point taken, but once again this is a level 20 campaign and this is what I want to build for it. So lets assume he is 20 does anyone have anything to say for that.

[Bharg]

5-6 is a joke. The Masterchief is not just an "elite stormtrooper".
He is more of an "epic stormtrooper". Boba Fett for instance has CL 15.

[Trixie]

Point taken, but once again this is a level 20 campaign and this is what I want to build for it. So lets assume he is 20 does anyone have anything to say for that.

Then, you're not building MC. You're building a guy that can chew a dozen MC's at once. Before breakfast. Simply give him every high level ability out there you can fit and you're good to go.

5-6 is a joke. The Masterchief is not just an "elite stormtrooper".
He is more of an "epic stormtrooper". Boba Fett for instance has CL 15.

Yawn. Another strike of level 20 fallacy.

By rules, Luke frakking Skywalker was level ~6th in Return of the Jedi. Unless you suggest MC can beat one of the most powerful Jedi Knights, ever, well...

Even level 10th means being in 0.0001% of populace, best of the best, in SW Galaxy, with its 25 million worlds. There is no way a guy from a backward planet push higher than that.

And Boba Fett doesn't count, IMHO, as he is basically an equivalent of Tarrasque - enemy NPC, something high level characters can battle. And besides, he would have crushed MC to a pulp.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

@ Trixie

Since this is a bit of a cross over how bout look at it in a little different prospective. In comparison to Yoda or the like sure the Chief would be lower leveled. But in comparison to anything in the Halo universe I would argue level 20 is about right for MC. In comparison to anyone else in his own universe...he owns. So just for the sake of argument how about look at it from that perspective. Assume that encounters will be scaled accordingly as you say "to have bad guys to fight" and still be fair. The point is to make Master Chief under the guidelines given. If he would actually be a level 20 in the star wars universe or not is moot. I will also say a fight between a Spartan II and a Mandalorian would be awesome indeed. However I would not give the nod to Fett so quickly. I think it would be a good fight either way.

[Mando Knight]

By rules, Luke frakking Skywalker was level ~6th in Return of the Jedi. Unless you suggest MC can beat one of the most powerful Jedi Knights, ever, well...

By the core book, he was actually around 11th level, with Ace Pilot and Scout levels stuck in there (St 1/J 7/AP 2/JK 1). By the newest EU novels, he's definitely hit level 20, since he's the new Jedi Order's Grandmaster.

But in comparison to anything in the Halo universe I would argue level 20 is about right for MC. In comparison to anyone else in his own universe...he owns.

Assuming the Brutes are only around CL 8 (roughly on par with the NPC elite mooks), Master Chief would still only be around 15 or 16 at most. He doesn't stand out in the field, dodge or take hundreds of rounds, then tear the entire army to shreds. He still has to use basic battlefield tactics to keep himself alive.

[Bharg]

0,0001%? Isn't that like 100,000,000 people alone on Coruscant?

The Masterchief is unique. There is only one, right? AND he comes from the future...

[Mando Knight]

AND he comes from the future...

Which, by SW tech, is the distant past (it's been blasters and laser swords for over a thousand years by the time of the Rebellion). Or possibly the far, far future, wherein SW level tech is all forgotten Forerunner stuff.

[Bharg]

I am sure that the Masterchief's modern automatic guns are far superior to SW's gffa slugthrowers. No way a Jadi could deflect a burst fired by a so called "Assault Rifle". Their weapons may be more flashy, but our's are more stingy as in to sting.

[Gamgee]

Considering the Star Wars universe has Mass Accelerator Cannons I am pretty sure Master Chief wouldn't stand a chance. And the Scorpion is packing a puny 90mm cannon. It couldn't possibly damage anything in the star wars universe vehicle scale.

The M.A.C gun on the AT-TE's was made to bypass a certain level of shielding. If they needed that much firepower (which was overkill for most targets). Then the 88mm on the Scorpion would probably never get past even light shielding.

The Slugthrowers were not M.A.C cannons Ill give you that, but they had fire rates from single shots to thousands per minute. That's a minimum of 16 shots a second which is an immense amount of ammunition. I would say Slugthrowers were the pinnacle of modern weapons we have today. Phased out by Pulse Wave Blasters, and then normal Blasters.

So does it matter if they suck if they are still on par with the chiefs, and then they have all these other crazy guns. Throw in the force and Chief doesn't stand a chance. No offense.

[Friend Computer]

By rules, Luke frakking Skywalker was level ~6th in Return of the Jedi. Unless you suggest MC can beat one of the most powerful Jedi Knights, ever, well...

If Star Wars Revised were the rules under discussion, this would be a valid point, but I think that enough changes have been made to SAGA that it no longer fits the 3.5 simulationist mould, and has become more gamey, focussed on internal consistency, balance, challenge, and fantasy, at the expence of 'realism'.

This is most certainly a case of the level 20 falacy, but I am hesitant to say that SAGA lv.6 represents the same level of personal power and accumulated skill that 3.5 lv.6 does.

[IdleMuse]

Well, back on topic of actually how to represent him at lvl20, there's a selection of Carbineer talents for the Gunslinger in one of the books that advance your rifle uberness, instead of pistols, if you so wish.

A good combo for massive rifle damage is Burst Fire (core, feat) + Autofire Assault (GaW, Soldier talent) + Controlled Burst (core, ET talent) + Riflemaster (GaW feat) with a Heavy Blaster Rifle with a Pulse Charger (Scum and Villainy) for 5d12+5 base damage for only a -3 to hit (-2 from Controlled Burst, -1 from pulse charger). As a normal attack, which means it can be double/triple attack stacked! This can further be increased by liberal use of Tech Specialist/Superior Tech enhancements on the rifle. Extra dice of damage can be added by talents like Accurate Blow, Ambush (boh clone wars), Assured Attack (Rebellion era).

[Mando Knight]

I am sure that the Masterchief's modern automatic guns are far superior to SW's gffa slugthrowers. No way a Jadi could deflect a burst fired by a so called "Assault Rifle". Their weapons may be more flashy, but our's are more stingy as in to sting.

Redirect, no. However, the slugs would be almost instantaneously sublimated on impact with the 'saber blade. GFFA slugthrowers aren't common beyond hunting rifles and assassination weapons, granted, but that's because there's no reason to mass-produce military versions of horribly outdated weapons. For throwing off Jedi, the Empire and others had flechette, sonic, and ion weapons, which are more difficult to deflect than autofire projectiles or blaster bolts. In the case of sonic weaponry, the lightsaber doesn't even do anything defensively.

[Dienekes]

By rules, Luke frakking Skywalker was level ~6th in Return of the Jedi. Unless you suggest MC can beat one of the most powerful Jedi Knights, ever, well...

Even level 10th means being in 0.0001% of populace, best of the best, in SW Galaxy, with its 25 million worlds. There is no way a guy from a backward planet push higher than that.

And Boba Fett doesn't count, IMHO, as he is basically an equivalent of Tarrasque - enemy NPC, something high level characters can battle. And besides, he would have crushed MC to a pulp.

No. Luke was not the strongest Jedi ever during RotJ, he was also level 11.
For comparison, Princess Leia during this time was level 10, Han Solo was 12, Chewbacca was 10, and Boba Fett was 15. Luke would eventually become level 20 and yeah, then MC wouldn't have a chance.

Master Chief was probably comparable in levels to Boba Fett (more really, just given the movies. Unless you think MC was possibly beat by a blind guy with a stick). He definitely was higher than Han or Leia.

Really looking at how the guy takes down entire squads like flies, saves galaxies and whatnot. Level 15 seems about right, with a lot of emphasis on using whatever weapon he can get his hands on and definitely Juggernaut. Filling out 5 extra levels is reasonable if you're trying to get a feel for playing a Master Chief-esque character in a high level campaign.

[Bharg]

The D&D 3.5 20th level also doesn't equal the Star Wars Saga 20th level.
You do not become a demigod like character. Attr, Defs, Dmg, Skills +10 etc. but that's about it, I guess. No quadratic wizards (only jedi that are overpowered from time to time).

I thought the slugthrower technology in tha gffa was antiquated, so there were only rusty, outdated weapons. All slugthrowers I have seen so far looked like muskets, flinging a single shot at a time.
So they are actually in a terrible shape, but still as good as our stuff... Star Wars technology is great. It's just there and every kid can produce it.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

When looking into the Halo universe much of the technology introduced to mankind by the covenant is very similar to what would be around in the Star Wars universe. Taking down Capital Ships with shielding is something that could be done. There is no way to compare that across the two places. Who is to say the covenant shields are not UBER better in every way than Star wars shields. Perfected personal shielding. Spartan Laser...aka not just simple slugthrowers were also part of the Chiefs arsenal. When looking at things like that it is not too big of a jump...And still...level 20 is what he is regardless of whither or not that is accurate. Thanks for the carbineer tip I had been looking at that too as a possibility.

[Mando Knight]

Who is to say the covenant shields are not UBER better in every way than Star wars shields.

Most analyses would probably say that the Covenant shielding is actually weaker than SW shielding, and simply a scaled up form of their own.

SW tech is capable of glassing a planet with only the turbolasers of a single warship. Snubfighters generally carry payloads of miniaturized nuclear warheads on top of their lasers. The deadliest war machines designed and constructed over just a 20 to 30 year period could obliterate entire planets or even solar systems.

The only things in the Halo-verse that really come close technologically to SW tech (such as the Halos themselves) are all Forerunner tech.

Perfected personal shielding. Spartan Laser...aka not just simple slugthrowers were also part of the Chiefs arsenal.

Spartan Laser is roughly the same as the Blaster Cannon heavy weapon. The personal shields in Halo fail too quickly to be considered "perfected" compared to those available in SW (Delta Squad has roughly similar shielding capacity when scaled to the weapons level), especially since the DE weapons are in general fairly weak in Halo.

[Dienekes]

The only things in the Halo-verse that really come close technologically to SW tech (such as the Halos themselves) are all Forerunner tech.

I'd generally agree, though you could make a case for bubble shields and magical healing over time machines.