Binder and arcane mark 3.5

[Grifthin]

Could you use arcane mark to make symbols to create bindings ? In other words cast arcane mark to create naberius symbol so you can start binding him ?

[Fizban]

Arcane Mark can only make an image up to 1' square, while the seal for the vestige must be at least 5' across, so no.

I've always thought that you could only have one Arcane Mark anyway: it says you inscribe your personal rune/message, and the Forgotten Realms setting has extra rules where the gods don't like it if you copy. But if your DM let's you do it that only makes it a better spell. Shame you can't draw seals with it.

[Thurbane]

Unfortunately not - as per ToM p.10, the image of the seal must be "at least 5 feet across", whereas Arcane Mark has an area of effect "all of which must fit within 1 square foot".

[edit: paper cut, paper cut, paper cut ninja!]

[kamikasei]

Isn't an arcane mark supposed to be unique to the caster, and any caster only has one? It doesn't seem to be stated in the spell description, I'm not sure if it might have been in flavour text that was stripped out for the SRD, or perhaps a setting-specific rule...

How large does a seal have to be? An arcane mark can't go larger than one square foot and I suspect seals have to be larger than that.

As a gut reaction, no, I wouldn't allow it, but that's because I think it's illegal for reasons I can't definitely recall, not because I think it'd be bad in itself.

[Tedesche]

Interesting idea. I'd say there are at least a couple of problems with a DM might bring up:

1.) Arcane mark only allows you to draw a rune (or seal, I guess, in this case) with a total of 6 "characters" in it. There's nothing here the specifically disallows what you're proposing, but one could argue that since the seals have to be at least 5 ft. across, it's reasonable assume that arcane mark doesn't provide you with enough "characters" do draw something so large and complex. It's true, the spell description doesn't comment on size limitations, but it's a reasonable assumption to make.

2.) The rules for Binder specifically state that one must spend 1 minute drawing the symbol. Arcane mark has a casting time of 1 standard action. One could make the argument that, by RAW, this violates the rules for vestige summoning, and thus, simply because you found a real-world way to get around a game-designed limitation on the ability, it doesn't work.

Personally, I'm a little torn. In most campaigns that I'd run, I'd rule that #2 can be waived, as the 1-minute drawing time isn't that much of a limitation anyway. However, I actually think #1 is a little more persuasive, if only because arcane mark has to have limitations on the size of its markings, and "less than 5 ft. across" seems likely to be closer to what the developers intended. Certainly, what you're talking about goes against RAI, so...yeah, I'd probably have to say no.

Props for creativity though!

EDIT: My bad. Arcane mark does specify an area: 1 sq. ft. So, definitely, by RAW, no.

[Agent_0042]

Sculpt Spell and Arcane Mark, maybe?

[Grifthin]

What a pity, I thought the whole Glowing runes of doom thing would be fun from a roleplaying perspective. oh well, I can always research a level 1-2 Version of it "Greater Arcane mark" - that should do the whole 5ft, 1 minute thing.

Thanks for the feedback.