Is this chassis too powerful?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I have some ideas for a sneak attacker prestige class, and I was wondering if the "chassis" I have in mind is too powerful.

Here is the Chassis

• Full BAB
• 5d6 sneak attack progression (at odd levels)
• 2 good saves
• 4+int skills

to counterbalabce it, I was thinking on restrickting this class to lizardfolk only, since the prestige class was inspired by the shadowscales from TES:Oblivion

Thanks in advance

[Milskidasith]

The answer is... maybe.

It all depends on what all the class features are.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well, i was thinking
on a scaling bonus to hide & move silently,
increase of NA,
the ability to secrete (don't know if that is the right word) poison from their natural weapons.(the idea is that they can deliver a poison which deals 1d4 Con damage with a claw or bite attack every 1d4 rounds.)
INA as bonus feat
and maybe eventually getting a climbing or burrowing speed (players choice)

[Ashtagon]

Restricting a prestige class to a single race is not a balancing factor. That simply leaves the class overpowered (assuming it was to begin with) for that race, or utterly irrelevant (for other races).

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

The answer is... maybe.

It all depends on what all the class features are.

The man speak truly. Class features are such an important part of a class that it's entirely dependent upon what you give it.

The Arcane Trickster, for instance, has full casting and sneak attack, but isn't the greatest class. The Jade Pheonix Mage has average BaB, 2 good saves, full maneuver progression, and almost full casting...and is pretty decent. There's a class that eludes my memory at the moment that has everything you're suggesting (Nightsong Enforcer, perhaps?), and isn't really stellar in any way.

It all depends on what you plan to DO with that chassis. The same chassis, after all, can work for a luxury sedan or a high-powered sports car. What matters is what's under the hood, so to speak.

[Volthawk]

Yeah, the class features will be what makes it powerful or not. I mean, Wizard PrCs are usually 1 good save, bad BAB, and low skills, but are powerful.

[Milskidasith]

That doesn't seem like it could be too powerful, and the chassis wouldn't be too overpowered then,, but again, I'd need to see a full class before I can determine if it gets enough; in all honesty, that's probably pretty weak overall, especially since most ways to enter the class wouldn't give you natural attacks that are worth a damn.

[Volthawk]

Well, i was thinking
on a scaling bonus to hide & move silently,
increase of NA,
the ability to secrete (don't know if that is the right word) poison from their natural weapons.(the idea is that they can deliver a poison which deals 1d4 Con damage with a claw or bite attack every 1d4 rounds.)
INA as bonus feat
and maybe eventually getting a climbing or burrowing speed (players choice)

OK:

Stealth bonuses: Seem alright to me.

NA increase: OK, since at higher levels AC is less important, seems alright.

Secrete poison: Well, poison generally has quite low DCs, so it should be OK. Con damage is quite good though.

INA: Well, lizardfolk have low damage attacks, so fine.

Extra speeds: Suppose it's alright. Fits with the whole infiltration thing.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I will have the rough write up, later today.

But I have another question, would having the poison DC scale like the Assassin's death attack (10+class levels+con bonus) mantain it relevant at higher levels?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I will have the rough write up, later today.

But I have another question, would having the poison DC scale like the Assassin's death attack (10+class levels+con bonus) mantain it relevant at higher levels?

Yes. The 10 + Level + Bonus formula is designed to keep an approximate 50% success rate against the average, equally leveled opponent.

[Milskidasith]

Yes. The 10 + Level + Bonus formula is designed to keep an approximate 50% success rate against the average, equally leveled opponent.

Granted, 50% against the "average" opponent probably means a ~80% chance of working against half of your foes, and a ~20% or less against other foes, but that's basically true for all saves.

[Dusk Eclipse]

hmmm would reducing the poison cool down, at higher levels of the class be too much, maybe as a capstone, being able to poison all your natural attacks?

[Milskidasith]

It all depends on how much the poison does and how many natural attacks you have, not that poison is generally a threat anyway.

[Dusk Eclipse]

.. let see, probablt that would be three attacks.... claw, claw bite, so 1d4, for every attack... probably not much....

[Milskidasith]

Never underestimate the ability of your players to get, say, Girallon's Blessing or... whatever that druid spell is that's +1d6/CL acid damage on all poisoned natural attacks. I think the acid one is actually easily eternal wand-able, though that would only get you +5d6 per attack on a base wand.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Right, I forgot how easy is to get multiple natural attack (coughtotemistcough)

[Milskidasith]

That would also fairly powerful, yes, and it could work out oddly well with a Wildshape ranger, although he would lose wildshaping to get into it (which is probably a negative tradeoff, but it's an interesting entry point, especially if he enters with fleshraker... IIRC, that gives him pounce, four or so natural attacks, some of which are already poisoned, now with con poison as well!)

[Dusk Eclipse]

...... didn't think of wildshape ranger..... and a fleshraker with both dex and con poison on most attacks..... :shudder:

[Milskidasith]

Still, I think the concept could work, as long as it wasn't abused, and the poison isn't particularly strong anyway; it's a nice minor debuff on hits, but it would take a lot to make it a one shot kill, besides the whole "Xd6 on hit" acid spell.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Now I got a problem with pre-requisites, I decided to open it to all races, but I am having trobules considering that the main parts of the class are improvements to natural attacks (specially claws).

so would this requirement be right?

Special:Must possess at least one type of natural attack (Natural attacks gained through class features, such as soulmelds, wildshape, spells, powers,or vestige pacts are allowed.)

[ArcanistSupreme]

Limiting it to classes/races that grant natural attacks might also limit the class's appeal. If I was a druid/wildshaping ranger, I wouldn't want to go into this class as staying with the main progression would probably be more powerful.

What if the class granted natural attacks?

[DragoonWraith]

I would not attempt to balance this assuming Venomfire, since that's a hideously broken spell. If your class isn't broken with Venomfire active, your class must be ridiculously weak.

[Knaight]

Restricting a prestige class to a single race is not a balancing factor. That simply leaves the class overpowered (assuming it was to begin with) for that race, or utterly irrelevant (for other races).

What? My 2nd edition DMG tells me that restricting who gets in a class is inherently balancing?

To the OP, lets get a full class write up, from there is is easier to fine tune.