Undersea Adventures: Comments, Concerns, & Concepts

[Aeolius]

Merfolk "regional differences" could be accounted for by making their fishy parts resemble different kinds of fish.

An older mermaid model for Poser had a variety of tail textures you might use for inspiration. You can find them here , here , and here . The newer mermaid model can be seen here and here.

[hamishspence]

How about the idea of fishy feats?

[Debihuman]

I was thinking along the lines of creating the Melusine, a variant merfolk race with two tails rather than just one. Variants could have the Shapechanger Subtype which would allow them to take Human form.

Racial feats could be interesting too.

Debby

[Aeolius]

I was thinking along the lines of creating the Melusine, a variant merfolk race with two tails rather than just one.

Sounds a bit like the triton :

[Debihuman]

Except that Tritons are Outsiders even though they are Native. Melusines would be Humanoids.

Debby

[hamishspence]

They do have the native subtype though- more like genasi- so while originally from the Plane of Water, they aren't as tied to it as Marids (water genies) are.

Maybe they're like water genasi- but the offspring of merfolk/marid hybridization, rather than human/marid?

Or just maridlike entities that migrated to the Material Plane so long ago that they have gained the Native subtype and lost the Extraplanar one.

[The Tygre]

I always saw Tritons as immigrants from the Plane of Water. There are some natives back home, but most of them have moved to the oceans of the material plane for one reason or another.

[Aeolius]

For better or for worse I tied tritons into the bloodline of one of my PCs, back when I was running my undersea play-by-post game. The character is an oceanid, daughter of salt hag and triton. Salt hags are the offspring of sea elves and night hags. Granted, the currently PC is a simulacrum of that character, made with blackwater - thus allowing her to gain experience and levels.

[Icedaemon]

What about the Ixitxachitl (Monster Manual II)? By turning the 'always chaotic evil' tag into the 'usually chaotic evil' one, which makes more sense for non-outsiders anyway, you get an interesting species which must cope with lacking traditional hands or any form of replacement. The Korpu in the same book are also nice, if seem to be strictly NPC races by virtue of high HD.

Aboleths, who deem themselves the rightful rulers of the entire world, but tend to work together with other aquatic folk to bring down surface civilizations are an interesting type of character.

[hamishspence]

Their mutant Underdark counterparts the Ixzans (in Lost Empires of Faerun) do have the "Usually CE" tag rather than "Always CE"

Aboleths in the ocean trenches rather than the Underdark could be interesting power centres. Possibly allied with the kuo-toa.

[Aeolius]

What about the Ixitxachitl (Monster Manual II)? By turning the 'always chaotic evil' tag into the 'usually chaotic evil' one, which makes more sense for non-outsiders anyway, you get an interesting species which must cope with lacking traditional hands or any form of replacement.

In addition to allowing the vampiric ixitxachitl the ability to create juju zombie spawn with their energy drain (thus gaining a pair of enslaved hands with their undead servants), I also added an "electric" variety inspired by the electric ray.

My ibishi (sea kobolds) are ray-like, in that they have wing-flaps and no legs. It didn't occur to me until afterwards, that I may have been inspired by this:

[Icedaemon]

Hmm... On a rayfish, arms might make more sense than on others. They tend to be bottom-dwellers, so limbs to dig and crawl with are not uncalled for and on such a body shape probably fold away better than on most other kinds of fishy body, thus not diminishing swim speed quite as much. If a species of ray has digging-limbs, those evolving to shapes which can grasp items, rock and food are likewise a boon to a scavenger.

Makes a fair bit of sense, come to think of it...

[hamishspence]

Apparently the guys on EN world are already creating their own "Pact of the Deep" as well as a sea race based on the Innsmouthers in Shadow Over Innsmouth.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-...ocks-murr.html

Wouldn't mind seeing more of this kind of stuff for 4E.

[hamishspence]

Maybe we should put links to all the interesting homebrew undersea stuff that's here- for the convenience of those who want all the best stuff close together?

Cecaelia:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...light=undersea

Undersea Tome of Battle school:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ighlight=ocean

[Debihuman]

Advanced Giant Squid -- http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...99&postcount=1

Advanced Monster of Legend Giant Squid -- http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...77&postcount=7

Pearl dragon while not just undersea can be found there: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...37&postcount=1

Coral dragon has the Aquatic subtype and amphibious special ability.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...01&postcount=1

Here's a picture of the coral dragon too: http://mistressofspam.deviantart.com/art/King-57050300

Debby

[hamishspence]

In the Master DMs Set (Basic, Expert, Companion, Master), the Pearl Dragon (also called Moon Dragon) was the Ruler of All Chaotic Dragons.

Alongside the Opal Dragon (Sun Dragon): Ruler of all Neutral Dragons, and the Diamond Dragon (Star Dragon): Ruler of all Lawful Dragons.

The Great Dragon (Ruler of All Dragonkind) stood above these three.

Might be interesting to see D&D versions of those. That said, the current version of the Pearl Dragon looks ideal as an aquatic dragon.

[Aeolius]

While I have yet to have the need to stat them out, my hagstone dragons have the following breath weapons:

Pearl - breathes a spray of sharpened oyster shells
Coral - breathes a mist of coralline algae, encrusting their opponent
Abalone - breathes a cloud of cyanide, paralyzing their prey

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I wrote the entire underwater realm for a MUD game once. There are so many underwater environments it ain't funny.

Kelp forests, thermal vents, coral reefs, crystal badlands, you name it.

The creepiest of course would be the Trenches. You could also bring in the horror by having most aberrations be restricted to the water except for certain times of the year when 'the stars are right'. So aboleths in some 20 mile deep trench city would certainly be something to fear and avoid.

In arctic campaigns you could have an upside down world, civilization attached to the underside of permanent ice. Working on just that for my Dying Ember campaign.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Merfolk "regional differences" could be accounted for by making their fishy parts resemble different kinds of fish.

You could meet sharkfolk, pufferfolk, barracudafolk, and many others.

Maybe throw in some feats to play to the various types- like one that allows the merfolk to puff themselves up and gain a bonus on Intimidate checks, or maybe skin that counts as spiked armour.

(Of course, I'm pinching this idea off Serpent Kingdoms, which does this with yuan-ti- which can resemble different kinds of snake and have feats to reflect this. Still, I like the idea.)

I think this is a great idea. You could make the basic merfolk race modular, and the baseline for more extreme and exotic races in your setting (if you make any non-merfolk playable races at all.)

[The Tygre]

I've tossed around the idea of regional merfolk myself. The 'common' merfolk that we're all familiar are oceanic fish, like cod and mackerel. It would be interesting to see some deep sea merfolk, like anglerfish or hatchet fish. Or maybe freshwater; could you imagine catfish merfolk, or arapaima?

[Aeolius]

...could you imagine catfish merfolk, or arapaima?

I have my psionic "jellyfolk", the ephyra , inspired by this illustration:

[Aeolius]

My major concern is that I've seen many threads on an underwater campaign but very little actual homebrewing for one. Hence, most threads die from sheer apathy. I saw it happen on the WotC's website and this is not the first thread on this topic.

(Again this is cross-posted at EN World, wizards.com, Giants in the Playground, Pen and Paper Games, RPG.net., PhoenixLore, and Canonfire)

Apathy.

I suppose that’s what it boils down to. In a few weeks, this thread might be 6 or 7 pages back; buried beyond discovery, save for those searching for keywords. So, how do we prevent that? How do we keep a topical and current thread available, for those of us interested in either creating underwater encounters, running undersea games, devising an entire milieu in the realm of liquid space, or all of the above?

Some time ago, I started underwater-themed groups at EN World and wizards.com , both entitled “Under the Sea”. Click on the links, to explore them. Yes, they seem to have fallen victim to apathy.

So, what would be the best course of action? Should I establish a message-board on a different site altogether, to prevent playing favorites with more established boards? Do we set up a Facebook group (alas, that requires using “real” names) or a Google Wave? Do we set up a weekly chat via IRC or mibbit? How about a merfolk Sim on Second Life? As an experiment, I set up an iWeb domain for my current game. Should I bite the bullet and work on one with Dreamweaver, for future endeavors? I’m open to a weekly offline chat, of course, though I cannot assume everyone is within driving distance of Greensboro, NC.

I have been running undersea D&D games since 1998. I have a passion for the sea. I keep saltwater aquariums as a hobby. This isn’t simply about my desire to find a new batch of players. I do not wish to see this topic get forgotten, buried, and die.

Yes, I always have my list of music, websites, books, and DVDs that I recommend, for inspirational purposes. How do we take it a step further? Mind you, some of my players seem to have technological barriers to the likes of MapTools, Second Life, and other CPU and Bandwidth-intensive activities. I would like the means to keep an open dialog, 24/7, for whatever subaqueous thoughts tickle our fancies. How shall we accomplish this?

[hamishspence]

I like the psionic jellyfolk. I think it's a good idea to (wherever possible) make the race playable from first level, as this one is. Or at least- as low a level as can be managed- with no Racial Hit Dice if at all possible.

Maybe clarify how its "Arms attack" works- is it a touch attack using its BAB?

Maybe a 1st level version of the Cecaelia could be done? Possibly downsizing it to high end of medium.

On racial variance- even if all merfolk use a bony fish as the basis, there's still plenty of variety.

Shark styles could be given to the sahuagin. D20 Past uses a sahaugin (sea devil) which looks much more like a humanoid shark than the standard D&D one does.

You could have different groups of sahuagin living different lifestyles, and looking different. Peaceful ones resembling Zebra sharks or Port Jackson sharks, dwelling on reefs eating crabs, and aggressive, nomadic ones resembling white sharks, dwelling out in the ocean (but regularly coming into the shallows) eating various larger sea creatures- seals, whales, etc.

For more sea monsters posted on this forum:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t=dunkleosteus

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ight=megalodon

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...hlight=serpent

And, just for luck- Guppy folk:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...postcount=1291

[Debihuman]

I suppose that’s what it boils down to. In a few weeks, this thread might be 6 or 7 pages back; buried beyond discovery, save for those searching for keywords. So, how do we prevent that? How do we keep a topical and current thread available, for those of us interested in either creating underwater encounters, running undersea games, devising an entire milieu in the realm of liquid space, or all of the above?

This is a homebrew forum. We can't keep it relevant if there aren't homebrewed things to discuss. That said, I've posted my undersea homebrewed creatures. Who's next?

Debby

[hamishspence]

I've been digging up old homebrew stuff- and if I can think of something new and good- I'll post it.

Maybe do some work on the cachalot whale, to produce a decent Leviathan melvillei statblock.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Well, I'm no expert on marine biology, but I wouldn't mind working out a list of racial feats for various kinds of merfolk. Does anyone have a list of ideas for that?


As long as we're discussing this, here's a list of my notes on aquatic campaigns:

• Reefs, and most land near the surface are very dense with flora and fauna. Bare ocean floor is desolate and barren.
• Gods probably don't dwell above the surface in the local mythology. In face, it's probably best to make the gods in this sort of mythology CR 15-20 beings who dwell near the civilizations they created. This would put the gods on par with ancient dragons in terms of storytelling, and lead to... Meddling.
• Most of the races prefer colder environments, and may even find the surface unbearably hot.
• Maps would be drawn linear. Because most marine life lives on the shelf, everything follows the contours of the land, and it's hard to map things out underwater. So, everything interesting happens in this narrow band between dangerous deep ocean and uninhabitable land, and that band is what gets drawn on the maps.
• Why build? It's dangerous if something with big teeth wanders into your home. In a city you can leave the doors and nice open architectural windows open, but at night or in a rural area you close your doors and windows and latch them shut. You can keep safe by living in a cave, but when your family gets too big there's no cave to hide in. This normally causes fighting over living space, but peaceful-minded races will solve the problem by building artificial caves, or homes. The basic home design is only one entrance, which can be in any direction (up, down, sideways, etc,) with the home built into a nook or existing cave.
• Cement: Usually just mud. Fitted stonework is much more common.
• Windows are common (built more like hatches, since there is little glass,) but you have to be able to close and latch them from the inside in case something wanders in.
• Unlike standard generic fantasy settings like Greyhawk, D&D doesn't have a common resource to draw on: not everybody knows what the setting is supposed to be like. There's no Tolkien to refer to. To remedy this, you could tell a ten-minute story at the start of each session to highlight a point of the setting.

[Aeolius]

Bare ocean floor is desolate and barren.

This came to mind: Life Under Arctic Ice and Deep Sea Atlantic Species

To remedy this, you could tell a ten-minute story at the start of each session to highlight a point of the setting.

An interesting idea. Many of the undersea supplements open with something similar, but something fairly generic could be of use to us all. I'll mull that over while I'm out of the country the next 10 days.

[hamishspence]

Each of the major ecological zones (trench, abyssal plain, open ocean, deep ocean, coral reefs, near-shore shallows, under-ice zones, black-smoker type volcanic, and so on) could have its own dominant race who rules the region and trades (or fights) with the other regions.

Anguillans (wormfolk) for the abyssal plains, sahuagin for the open ocean, and so on.

[hamishspence]

Intelligent, viciously predatory rays as antagonists have been done in sci-fi on occasion- the novel Natural Selection, by Dave Freedman, has a newly discovered species of ray that split of from the rest in prehistoric times.

It comes with the ability to fly, and hover, somehow, by "rippling its underside, generating lift"

While more than a little implausible- such a creature might make sense in a D&D game.

[Debihuman]

There's also the possibility of constructing an Atlantean civilization where everything is powered by crystals. Of course, living under a bubble would be isolating unless there were alternative methods of entry and egress. Portals, magical or mechanical, would suffice. Harnessing the power of the tectonic plates, various currents, or even the deep sea vents would be interesting.

Debby