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    Default [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    In looking for a revision of the magic system that does not limit spellcasters to a certain amount of spells per day I first looked at the Recharge Variant from UA. The benefit of that system is that it does remove the daily limit of spells per day, but introduces a complex system for determining when a spell may be cast again. It also does not provide a counter-balance for increasing caster's power - they gain unlimited spells per day, and the only drawback is they have to wait a few rounds or sometimes significantly longer before they can use a spell of that level again.

    The idea of the Arcane Swordsage has been debated since WoTC put those few lines in Tome of Battle that completely fail to describe exactly how the character's abilities would work. Spells as maneuvers sounds really neat, but without a clear understanding of RAW (as well as discussion about it's high potential for broken-ness) it's not a real viable alternative unless the DM and player work out a system.

    As prompted by my search for my own set of ideal House Rules, here's a system I've put together for Magic using the known / readied / expended / recovered set of rules.

    tl;dr Spellcasters know far fewer spells but use the Tome of Battle maneuver method for casting. 8th & 9th level spells are treated as special, not part of daily casting.


    I kind of expect to get a lot of heavy criticism, which is okay. Just be nice please.

    [From the SRD regarding Recharge Magic. It's applicable to this variant system as well]
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    This is a high-powered variant, because spellcasters can cast their staple combat and healing spells all day long. This means that the PCs face almost every encounter fully healed, and rarely do spellcasters have their spell lists significantly depleted. Spellcasters will always have access to their highest-level combat and healing spells. And it’s those spells that largely comprise a spellcaster’s contribution toward overcoming a given encounter.

    As with most high-powered variants, this variant works only if every spellcaster in the campaign is using it, including powerful NPC spellcasters.

    As the DM, you have to plan for a party of PCs that can adventure all day long, beginning every fight in a more or less fully rested state. This prospect can be thrilling for players, who no longer have to face the disappointment of a retreat to town just when they’re on the cusp of the adventure’s climax. But when PCs don’t need to retreat to heal and prepare new spells, the GM ends up running more encounters per game session, which means a measure of extra preparation.

    As a rule of thumb, a group of four PCs that includes two variant spellcasters can handle encounters of an Encounter Level equal to the characters’ average level +2. The fights will be exciting ones; every room in the dungeon becomes as perilous as a typical adventure’s climax. But the PCs face each one with full resources, so the denizens of the dungeon can’t defeat them through depletion and attrition. If your group likes knock-down, drag-out, set-piece battles, then this variant lets you fight more of them.


    ----

    Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells


    Spells Known

    Every spellcaster has a limited number of Spells Known. They select their spells known from their class list of spells.

    Spellcasters can not learn new spells from scrolls.

    *Ability Scores do grant extra spells known.*

    Replacing Spells Known: Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered class level after that (6th, 8th, and so on) in a class that increases their spellcasting, a spellcaster can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the spellcaster "loses" the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell must be chosen from the spell list of the class he or she gained the level in and must replace a spell gained from the same class.

    The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged and it may be a spell of any level that the spellcaster can cast. A spellcaster may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.[/list]


    Readying Spells

    Prepared spellcasters may Ready a specific number of spells per spell level. Readied spells may be changed by meditating for 5 minutes. A spellcaster may not ready multiple instances of a spell, but may ready a metamagic'd version of the spell in addition to the regular spell.

    Ex. A 4th level Wizard knows 5 1st level spells and 2 2nd level spells. She may ready 3 1st level spells and 1 2nd level spell.

    Spontaneous Spellcasters have all their known spells as readied spells. They must recover expended spells normally.

    *Ability scores do not grant extra spells readied.*


    Recovering Spells

    Prepared Casters Use the Swordsage Recovery Method.

    Spontaneous Casters Use the Warblade Recovery Method, Modified. (Swift action to recover, remove requirement to attack)

    Spellcasters may not cast a spell in the round they recover their spells.


    Prestige Classes

    With the delayed acquisition of new spell levels, Prestige Classes that require a character be capable of casting a specific level of spells now instead require characters to have a minimum caster level. The required caster level is whichever caster level was required in the regular system to cast the required level of spells. Sounds a little complicated, but it's not really.

    Ex. Prestige Class X requires a character to cast 3rd level spells. The character entering is a Wizard. In the regular system Wizards need 5 class levels to cast 3rd level spells, so the Prestige Class requires Wizards to have a Caster Level of 5. This caster level refers to levels in the spellcasting class, not a higher caster level a character may have due to magic items or other abilities.

    Classes

    Bard
    Spoiler
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    Spells Known Per Level
    {table=head]X|.0.|.1.|.2.|.3.|.4.|.5.|.6.
    1|2|||||||
    2|2|1||||||
    3|3|2||||||
    4|3|2|1|||||
    5|4|3|1|||||
    6|4|3|2|||||
    7|4|4|2|1||||
    8|5|4|2|1||||
    9|5|4|2|2||||
    10|5|4|2|2|1|||
    11|5|4|2|2|1|||
    12|5|4|2|2|2|||
    13|5|4|2|2|2|1|||
    14|5|4|2|2|2|1|||
    15|5|4|2|2|2|2|||
    16|5|4|2|2|2|2|1|
    17|5|4|2|2|2|2|1|
    18|5|4|2|2|2|2|2|
    19|5|4|2|2|2|2|2|
    20|5|4|2|2|2|2|2[/table]

    Spells Readied Per Level
    * Spontaneous Spellcasters have all their spells known as readied spells. They are expended and recovered normally.



    Archivist / Cleric / Druid / Wizard
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    Domain Spells: The Cleric gains the spells listed in his or her Domains as bonus spells known. These do not count against the normal limit of spells known.

    Specialist Wizards: A Specialist Wizard gains 1 bonus spell known per spell level and 1 bonus spell readied per spell level. The spell known and readied spell both must be from his or her school of specialty.

    Spells Known Per Level
    {table=head]X|.0.|.1.|.2.|.3.|.4.|.5.|.6.|.7.
    1|3|3|||||
    2|3|4|||||
    3|4|5|1||||
    4|4|5|2|||||
    5|5|5|2|||||
    6|5|5|3|1||||
    7|6|5|3|2||||
    8|6|5|4|2||||
    9|6|5|4|3|1|||
    10|6|5|4|3|2|||
    11|6|5|4|4|2|||
    12|6|5|4|4|3|1||
    13|6|5|4|4|3|2|||
    14|6|5|4|4|4|2|||
    15|6|5|4|4|4|3|1||
    16|6|5|4|4|4|3|2||
    17|6|5|4|4|4|4|2|1|
    18|6|5|4|4|4|4|3|2|
    19|6|5|4|4|4|4|3|3|
    20|6|5|4|4|4|4|4|4|[/table]

    Spells Readied Per Level
    {table=head]X|.0.|.1.|.2.|.3.|.4.|.5.|.6.|.7.
    1|3|2|||||
    2|3|2|||||
    3|4|2|1|||||
    4|4|3|1|||||
    5|4|3|2|||||
    6|4|3|2|1||||
    7|4|3|2|1||||
    8|4|3|2|2||||
    9|4|3|2|2|1|||
    10|4|3|2|2|1|||
    11|4|3|2|2|2|||
    12|4|3|2|2|2|1||
    13|4|3|2|2|2|1||
    14|4|3|2|2|2|2||
    15|4|3|2|2|2|2|1|
    16|4|3|2|2|2|2|1|
    17|4|3|2|2|2|2|2|1
    18|4|3|2|2|2|2|2|1
    19|4|3|2|2|2|2|2|2
    20|4|3|2|2|2|2|2|2[/table]


    Hexblade / Paladin / Ranger / Spellthief
    Spoiler
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    Spells Known Per Level
    {table=head]X|.1.|.2.|.3.|.4.
    1|||||
    2||||||
    3||||||
    4|1||||
    5|1||||
    6|1||||
    7|2||||
    8|2|1|||
    9|2|1|||
    10|2|1|||
    11|2|2|1||
    12|3|2|1||
    13|3|2|1||
    14|3|2|2|1|
    15|3|2|2|1|
    16|3|2|2|1|
    17|3|2|2|2|
    18|3|2|2|2|
    19|3|2|2|2|
    20|3|2|2|2[/table]

    Hexblade & Spellthief are Spontaneous Spellcasters. Spontaneous Spellcasters have all their known spells as readied spells.

    Spells Readied Per Level
    {table=head]X|.1.|.2.|.3.|.4.
    1|||||
    2||||||
    3||||||
    4|1||||
    5|1||||
    6|1||||
    7|2||||
    8|2|1|||
    9|2|1|||
    10|2|1|||
    11|2|1|1||
    12|2|2|1||
    13|2|2|1||
    14|2|2|1|1|
    15|2|2|1|1|
    16|2|2|1|1|
    17|2|2|1|1|
    18|2|2|1|1|
    19|2|2|1|1|
    20|2|2|1|1[/table]


    Beguiler / Dread Necromancer / Favored Soul / Sorcerer / Warmage
    Spoiler
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    Spells Known Per Level
    {table=head]X|.0.|.1.|.2.|.3.|.4.|.5.|.6.|.7.
    1|3|2|||||
    2|3|3|||||
    3|4|4|1||||
    4|4|4|1|||||
    5|5|4|2||||
    6|5|4|2|1||||
    7|5|4|2|1|||
    8|5|4|2|2||||
    9|5|4|2|2|1||
    10|5|4|2|2|1|||
    11|5|4|2|2|2||
    12|5|4|2|2|2|1||
    13|5|4|2|2|2|1|||
    14|5|4|2|2|2|2|||
    15|5|4|2|2|2|2|1||
    16|5|4|2|2|2|2|1||
    17|5|4|2|2|2|2|2|1|
    18|5|4|2|2|2|2|2|1|
    19|5|4|2|2|2|2|2|2|
    20|5|4|2|2|2|2|2|2|[/table]

    Spells Readied per Level
    * Spontaneous Spellcasters have all their spells known as readied spells. They are expended and recovered normally.



    Feats

    Adaptive Style - No revision. Applies to maneuvers only, not spells.

    Extra Slot - Gain an extra Readied spell at any level lower than your highest level. Prepared Spellcasters only. May be taken multiple times.

    Extra Spell - No revision.

    Extra Readied Maneuver, Martial Study, Martial Stance - No revision. They apply to maneuvers only.

    Reserve Feats - The feat functions on having the required type of spell readied. If there are no readied spells that meet the spell requirement, the spellcaster loses the benefit.

    Collegiate Wizard / Precocious Apprentice - Banned. Precocious Apprentice is like a Extra Spell and Extra Slot together in one feat, albeit for a specific spell level. Collegiate Wizard effectively doubles the amount of spells a Wizard knows.


    Magic Items

    Potions / Oils - Drinking or applying a Potion or Oil readies and expends the spell immediately. In effect, no change.

    Scrolls - They allow the spellcaster to ready the spell for later use (like Martial Scripts) or may be readied and expended immediately. Characters utilizing Use Magic Device to read a scroll ready and expend the spell immediately upon activating the scroll.

    Wands / Staffs - Activation of a Wand or Staff readies and expends the spell immediately, draining the appropriate amount of charges. Usually 1 charge, but may be more in the case of Staffs.


    Metamagic

    Prepared Spellcasters must ready the metamagic version of the spell in the appropriate higher level spell slot.

    Spontaneous Spellcasters may apply a metamagic feat to a readied spell on the fly, choosing a different spell in the appropriate higher level spell slot to expend.

    Ex. A 12th level Sorcerer casts an Extended version of Mage Armor. Instead of expending Mage Armor, a 2nd level spell is chosen and expended.


    Spells

    Summons A spellcaster may only have one instance of a summoning spell or ability active at a single time. These include but are not limited to Summon Nature's Ally, Summon Monster, Summon Undead, the Planar Ally series of spells and the Planar Binding series of spells.

    The caster that summoned the creatures expends spell slots when the summoned creature uses a special ability that duplicates or replicates the effects of a spell. The spellcaster expends a spell of the level equivalent to the spell level of the ability that the summoned creature used. This also applies to other abilities such as maneuvers or psionic powers.


    8th & 9th level spells as Incantations

    Removing 8th & 9th level spells from the list of known and readied spells will help balance spellcasters vs non-spellcasters, but the DM and players may wish to not entirely eliminate those spells from the game world. One option is to treat 8th & 9th level spells as Incantations.

    Each 8th & 9th level spell is a separate Incantation and must be developed and used under the guidance of the DM.


    Things that need fixin'

    Anyspell / Greater Anyspell.


    ----

    That's the basic idea. I've tried to think of a few problems ahead of time, but my solutions may have other problems or there may be better solutions. Please let me know what you think!
    Last edited by Chambers; 2010-07-03 at 03:00 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    A few comments/issues:

    • Why do spontaneous casters still effectively lose a level to prepared ones? That really isn't necessary at all.
    • Why do spontaneous casters need to make melee attacks to recover spells? That doesn't really make much sense. How about just requiring a swift action to recover them, as long as you don't cast spells in the same round?
    • You should allow prepared casters to replace spells known with spells of equal level, since that helps newer players by lowering the margin of error and doesn't really increase power much.
    • Spontaneous being spontaneous, shouldn't they not have to ready spells beforehand? Why not just let them cast, well, spontaneously out of the readied slots?
    • No real reason Extra Slot shouldn't be usable by prepared casters. If anything, it's worse for them, since they have so many more slots already than spontaneous casters, so it makes less difference.
    • Scrolls should let you just use them right away, at least as an option. Otherwise it'll take way too many actions to get one active.
    • I feel like paladins/rangers should get a bit more love and gain some more spells known/spell slots, though this isn't strictly necessary.

    Overall, I don't know what to make of this yet. It seems like one of those variants that you really have to play out to see whether it works.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    I think you might find this interesting. It's incomplete, but might give you some ideas.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    It might be interesting to give Spontaneous casters the Crusader Readied/Granted Maneuvers mechanic...
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    Why do spontaneous casters still effectively lose a level to prepared ones? That really isn't necessary at all.
    Because I used the same rate of new spell level acquisition as was in the PHB. I agree that it's not really necessary.

    Why do spontaneous casters need to make melee attacks to recover spells? That doesn't really make much sense. How about just requiring a swift action to recover them, as long as you don't cast spells in the same round?
    Right. I meant to modify that. Your idea sounds good.

    You should allow prepared casters to replace spells known with spells of equal level, since that helps newer players by lowering the margin of error and doesn't really increase power much.
    That's a good reason.

    Spontaneous being spontaneous, shouldn't they not have to ready spells beforehand? Why not just let them cast, well, spontaneously out of the readied slots?
    If I understand correctly, you propose that all of a spontaneous spellcasters spells are considered readied, but would have to be recovered after casting? That would give a Sorcerer 21 1st-9th level spells readied, compared to the Wizards 19 1st-9th level spells ready. The Wizard knows 37 spells total. Hmmm.

    That definitely makes a higher degree of distinction between the two classes. Sorcerer has all their spells ready to go, while a Wizard has about half their spells known readied. The number readied is about the same, and it keeps the old concepts of Sorcerers being able to cast any of their spells and Wizards having to prepare a limited amount.

    I think that would work.

    No real reason Extra Slot shouldn't be usable by prepared casters. If anything, it's worse for them, since they have so many more slots already than spontaneous casters, so it makes less difference.
    With the previous change, Extra Slot becomes literally useless for spontaneous casters. So prepared casters it is.

    Scrolls should let you just use them right away, at least as an option. Otherwise it'll take way too many actions to get one active.
    Yeah.

    I feel like paladins/rangers should get a bit more love and gain some more spells known/spell slots, though this isn't strictly necessary.
    I could make an alternate progression table where the get spells sooner and more of them, but I'd keep it as an optional progression so each group can decide whether they want to use it or not.

    Thanks for the critiques!

    Vermithrax

    That seems...needlessly complicated?


    Ashen Star

    I thought about having divine casters use the Crusaders recovery mechanic, but decided against using it altogether. One of the main difference between spellcasters is prepared vs spontaneous, so I felt only two recovery mechanics were needed.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    If you do this, you should first remove anything remotely like Adaptive Style, or similar auto-recovery stuff.

    Secondly, I'd stop at either 7th or 8th level spells, probably 7th, or cull tons of spells. Most 8th and 9th level spells aren't balanced, or, if they are, they're balanced against only a couple of uses per day. With this design, a Wizard could, for example, fire off 2 9th level and 2 8th level spells per encounter before including a refresh mechanic. That'll really throw your power curve a loop.

    9th level maneuvers are about 6-7th level spells, usually. Leaning slightly towards 7th. Bear that in mind with your class design here.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    If you do this, you should first remove anything remotely like Adaptive Style, or similar auto-recovery stuff.

    Secondly, I'd stop at either 7th or 8th level spells, probably 7th, or cull tons of spells.
    This, plus limiting the power of summon spells. It would get even worse if the summons could cast spells or use maneuvers... would you like some fries with that headache?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Quote Originally Posted by M-Bark View Post
    This, plus limiting the power of summon spells. It would get even worse if the summons could cast spells or use maneuvers... would you like some fries with that headache?
    You could run Summon spells like Stances, actually (except make it a full-round action or standard action to start it off)...that might work nicely. You'd only get one, but it might work out well. And allow Summons to use spells, but those spells are drawn from your reserve of readied slots (so if it casts a 3rd level spell, you lose a readied 3rd level spell), and you can't cast a spell during a round where your summon casts a spell.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2010-07-02 at 11:25 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    I like it. This makes me happy. I demand more happiness! How does this affect such classes as Beguiler, and Dread Necromancer? They're Spontaneous Casters, but they get all of their spells... and don't get to cast as much every day. So! How are they affected?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Adaptive Style

    I mentioned in the first post that Adaptive Style does not recover spells. Instead it allows prepared spellcasters to switch out unexpended spells.

    I can see every prepared spellcaster taking this feat, as it effectively removes one of the limitations of the class; they have more spells but can't ready them all at the same time. The feat just imposes a 1 round delay, so it circumvents that restriction.

    Hmm. If an optional ability is too good not to have that may be an indication it's overpowered. Should I just remove Adaptive Style entirely? That means that prepared casters can't change readied spells on the fly - which is how it works in the regular system. I'm inclining towards removing it. Other thoughts on this?


    Summons

    I like the idea of limiting a caster to only a single instance of Summon X at a time. Summons are already a full round action anyway. I think having Summons that use spells draw from your list of readied spells is good, but I don't like implementing a 'either your summons cast a spell or you cast a spell' rule. You can both cast, but it burns through your slots faster.

    8th/9th level spells

    Cutting out 8th and 9th level spells would certainly remove some of the spellcasters heavy weapons. Here's a list from the SRD of the spells that would be gone.

    Under this idea should spellcasters still have access to 8th and 9th level slots for the purpose of metamagic?
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    Sorcer/Wizard

    8th-Level Sorcerer/Wizard Spells
    Abjur
    Dimensional Lock Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level.
    Mind Blank Subject is immune to mental/emotional magic and scrying.
    Prismatic Wall Wall’s colors have array of effects.
    Protection from Spells M F Confers +8 resistance bonus.
    Conj
    Incendiary Cloud Cloud deals 4d6 fire damage/round.
    Maze Traps subject in extradimensional maze.
    Planar Binding, Greater As lesser planar binding, but up to 18 HD.
    Summon Monster VIII Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
    Trap the Soul M F Imprisons subject within gem.
    Div
    Discern Location Reveals exact location of creature or object.
    Moment of Prescience You gain insight bonus on single attack roll, check, or save.
    Prying Eyes, Greater As prying eyes, but eyes have true seeing.
    Ench
    Antipathy Object or location affected by spell repels certain creatures.
    Binding M Utilizes an array of techniques to imprison a creature.
    Charm Monster, Mass As charm monster, but all within 30 ft.
    Demand As sending, plus you can send suggestion.
    Irresistible Dance Forces subject to dance.
    Power Word Stun Stuns creature with 150 hp or less.
    Symbol of Insanity M Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane.
    Sympathy F Object or location attracts certain creatures.
    Evoc
    Clenched Fist Large hand provides cover, pushes, or attacks your foes.
    Polar Ray Ranged touch attack deals 1d6/level cold damage.
    Shout, Greater Devastating yell deals 10d6 sonic damage; stuns creatures, damages objects.
    Sunburst Blinds all within 10 ft., deals 6d6 damage.
    Telekinetic Sphere As resilient sphere, but you move sphere telekinetically.
    Illus
    Scintillating Pattern Twisting colors confuse, stun, or render unconscious.
    Screen Illusion hides area from vision, scrying.
    Shadow Evocation, Greater As shadow evocation, but up to 7th level and 60% real.
    Necro
    Clone M F Duplicate awakens when original dies.
    Create Greater Undead M Create shadows, wraiths, spectres, or devourers.
    Horrid Wilting Deals 1d6/level damage within 30 ft.
    Symbol of Death M Triggered rune slays nearby creatures.
    Trans
    Iron Body Your body becomes living iron.
    Polymorph Any Object Changes any subject into anything else.
    Temporal Stasis M Puts subject into suspended animation.


    9th-Level Sorcerer/Wizard Spells
    Abjur
    Freedom Releases creature from imprisonment.
    Imprisonment Entombs subject beneath the earth.
    Mage’s Disjunction Dispels magic, disenchants magic items.
    Prismatic Sphere As prismatic wall, but surrounds on all sides.
    Conj
    Gate X Connects two planes for travel or summoning.
    Refuge M Alters item to transport its possessor to you.
    Summon Monster IX Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
    Teleportation Circle M Circle teleports any creature inside to designated spot.
    Div
    Foresight “Sixth sense” warns of impending danger.
    Ench
    Dominate Monster As dominate person, but any creature.
    Hold Monster, Mass As hold monster, but all within 30 ft.
    Power Word Kill Kills one creature with 100 hp or less.
    Evoc
    Crushing Hand Large hand provides cover, pushes, or crushes your foes.
    Meteor Swarm Four exploding spheres each deal 6d6 fire damage.
    Illus
    Shades As shadow conjuration, but up to 8th level and 80% real.
    Weird As phantasmal killer, but affects all within 30 ft.
    Necro
    Astral Projection M Projects you and companions onto Astral Plane.
    Energy Drain Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
    Soul Bind F Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.
    Wail of the Banshee Kills one creature/level.
    Trans
    Etherealness Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions.
    Shapechange F Transforms you into any creature, and change forms once per round.
    Time Stop You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds.
    Univ
    Wish X As limited wish, but with fewer limits.


    Cleric

    8th-Level Cleric Spells
    Antimagic Field Negates magic within 10 ft.
    Cloak of Chaos F +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against lawful spells.
    Create Greater Undead M Create shadows, wraiths, spectres, or devourers.
    Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Cures 4d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
    Dimensional Lock Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level.
    Discern Location Reveals exact location of creature or object.
    Earthquake Intense tremor shakes 80-ft.-radius.
    Fire Storm Deals 1d6/level fire damage.
    Holy Aura F +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against evil spells.
    Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass Deals 4d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
    Planar Ally, Greater X As lesser planar ally, but up to 18 HD.
    Shield of Law F +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against chaotic spells.
    Spell Immunity, Greater As spell immunity, but up to 8th-level spells.
    Summon Monster VIII Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
    Symbol of Death M Triggered rune slays nearby creatures.
    Symbol of Insanity M Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane.
    Unholy Aura F +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells.


    9th-Level Cleric Spells
    Astral Projection M Projects you and companions onto Astral Plane.
    Energy Drain Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
    Etherealness Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions.
    Gate X Connects two planes for travel or summoning.
    Heal, Mass As heal, but with several subjects.
    Implosion Kills one creature/round.
    Miracle X Requests a deity’s intercession.
    Soul Bind F Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.
    Storm of Vengeance Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail.
    Summon Monster IX Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
    True Resurrection M As resurrection, plus remains aren’t needed.

    Druid

    8th-Level Druid Spells
    Animal Shapes One ally/level polymorphs into chosen animal.
    Control Plants Control actions of one or more plant creatures.
    Cure Serious Wounds, Mass Cures 3d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
    Earthquake Intense tremor shakes 80-ft.-radius.
    Finger of Death Kills one subject.
    Repel Metal or Stone Pushes away metal and stone.
    Reverse Gravity Objects and creatures fall upward.
    Summon Nature’s Ally VIII Calls creature to fight.
    Sunburst Blinds all within 10 ft., deals 6d6 damage.
    Whirlwind Cyclone deals damage and can pick up creatures.
    Word of Recall Teleports you back to designated place.

    9th-Level Druid Spells
    Antipathy Object or location affected by spell repels certain creatures.
    Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Cures 4d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
    Elemental Swarm Summons multiple elementals.
    Foresight “Sixth sense” warns of impending danger.
    Regenerate Subject’s severed limbs grow back, cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +35).
    Shambler Summons 1d4+2 shambling mounds to fight for you.
    Shapechange F Transforms you into any creature, and change forms once per round.
    Storm of Vengeance Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail.
    Summon Nature’s Ally IX Calls creature to fight.
    Sympathy M Object or location attracts certain creatures.


    NecroticPunch

    They know a limited number of spells, just like every caster. They select their known spells from their class list of spells. I plan on making progressions for those classes as well (Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Warmage, etc).

    Without looking at the numbers, expect something like the Sorcerer's number of spells known. I can't say for sure though, have to sit down and go over the classes.
    "We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"

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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    You could run Summon spells like Stances, actually (except make it a full-round action or standard action to start it off)...that might work nicely. You'd only get one, but it might work out well. And allow Summons to use spells, but those spells are drawn from your reserve of readied slots (so if it casts a 3rd level spell, you lose a readied 3rd level spell), and you can't cast a spell during a round where your summon casts a spell.
    So, other than some extra damage and "temporary hp" added to the party, summoning a casting creature becomes a way to change up your prepared spells mid battle. I like it, but summoning an initiating, manifesting, meldshaping, SLA or PLA using creature still breaks the action economy. There will need to be rules for converting each into expended spell slots.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by unnamedhero View Post
    Hmm. If an optional ability is too good not to have that may be an indication it's overpowered. Should I just remove Adaptive Style entirely? That means that prepared casters can't change readied spells on the fly - which is how it works in the regular system. I'm inclining towards removing it. Other thoughts on this?
    If you go with the summoning suggestion, you could make several versions of similar class features for that purpose. When every casting class has a method for changing prepared spells on the fly, Adaptive Style becomes more of a perk than a necessity. You just have to make sure these other methods are helpful, but not quite as good as the feat lest you risk making it useless, which would be almost the same as removing it.
    Last edited by Vermithrax; 2010-07-02 at 01:09 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermithrax View Post
    So, other than some extra damage and "temporary hp" added to the party, summoning a casting creature becomes a way to change up your prepared spells mid battle. I like it, but summoning an initiating, manifesting, meldshaping, SLA or PLA using creature still breaks the action economy. There will need to be rules for converting each into expended spell slots.
    Summoning already breaks the action economy. This way the character personally pays for the spells that summoned creature uses.

    For other abilities (supernatural, spell-like, maneuvers, etc) a rough guide would be to find the equivalent spell level and expend a spell of that level.

    edit:

    Added Reserve Feats and changed some formatting.
    Last edited by Chambers; 2010-07-02 at 01:10 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Quote Originally Posted by unnamedhero View Post
    Cutting out 8th and 9th level spells would certainly remove some of the spellcasters heavy weapons. Here's a list from the SRD of the spells that would be gone.

    Under this idea should spellcasters still have access to 8th and 9th level slots for the purpose of metamagic?
    I'd say no. Instead, take the current 7th level spells and make them 9th level spells. Then, break down those existing 7 spell levels (not counting cantrips) into 9 spell levels: there's enough variety in the power of certain levels to make that work. Hell, I might be willing to lend a hand there myself.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    I'd say no. Instead, take the current 7th level spells and make them 9th level spells. Then, break down those existing 7 spell levels (not counting cantrips) into 9 spell levels: there's enough variety in the power of certain levels to make that work. Hell, I might be willing to lend a hand there myself.
    That's...a lot of work if I understand you correctly. You want to go through all the 1st through 7th level spells and assign them new levels, scaling from 1st to 9th?

    I'd be more inclined to just eliminate 8th & 9th level spells, then modify the progression of when spellcasters gain access to the new spell levels, with 7th being the max. It's a simpler fix and makes the system easier for people to pick up and play.

    It also has the effect of slowing down the progression of new spell levels, probably by a level or two. So that's another balancing factor for spellcasters vs non-spellcasters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermithrax
    If you go with the summoning suggestion, you could make several versions of similar class features for that purpose. When every casting class has a method for changing prepared spells on the fly, Adaptive Style becomes more of a perk than a necessity. You just have to make sure these other methods are helpful, but not quite as good as the feat lest you risk making it useless, which would be almost the same as removing it.
    That sounds really neat. But I'm trying to make these changes with as little revision as possible, so people don't have learn a lot of new things if they want to use the system.

    edit:

    8th & 9th level spells as Incantations

    Removing 8th & 9th level spells from the list of known and readied spells will help balance spellcasters vs non-spellcasters, but the DM and players may wish to not entirely eliminate those spells from the game world. One option is to treat 8th & 9th level spells as Incantations.

    Each 8th & 9th level spell is a separate Incantation and must be developed and used under the guidance of the DM.
    Last edited by Chambers; 2010-07-02 at 01:50 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    "We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"

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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Sorcerer's have a dead level? Why do Sorcerers have a 2 dead level? That seems hardly fair, my good sir.

    Edit: Perchance you could give Sorcerers an extra use of their spells per day, so that Sorcerers still are better than Wizards at something

    Swift Action to restore a Spell? I'll take two, and a side of cake
    Last edited by NecroticPunch; 2010-07-03 at 08:09 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    In creating characters for the playtest a major design flaw has emerged. Duration is a big problem. Being able to cast a spell that lasts minutes or hours or 24 hours, and then turn around and it cast it again on every member of the party was not my intended effect for this change.

    But that's what the rule change allows. So every character has 5 castings of Resist Energy, various AC and Stat boosts, ect. Not the players fault - good job on picking up on that and exploiting it - my design fault.

    So I need a way to fix this. Here's a proposed fix.

    Durations

    For spells with durations longer than instantaneous a spellcaster may only have one instance of the spell cast at a single time.

    ---

    No more buffing the whole party....but it also means only a single person gets to use a spell at a time. This is a major shift from how casting spells work in D&D and I kinda like it but am not sure how well it would work.

    Thoughts?
    "We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"

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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    I can get behind this change.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndworm View Post
    I can get behind this change.
    How about this?


    Duration

    For spells with durations longer than instantaneous a spellcaster may have half his or her character level in duplicate instances of spells. The duplicate instances may be all of the same spell or different spells, of whatever level spell the spellcaster can cast.

    Ex. A 4th level Wizard can have 2 duplicate instances. She may cast Mage Armor 3 times [2 Duplicates], or Mage Armor 2 times [1 Duplicate] and Protection From Evil 2 times [1 Duplicate].
    "We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"

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    Default Re: [3.5] Magic Variant - Known / Readied Spells

    Or...

    Duration

    A spell slot used to cast a spell with duration longer than instantaneous cannot be recovered until that spell's duration ends. When recovering spells the caster must choose which of its expended spells are recovered, especially when more spells have been expended than the caster has spell slots in which to recover them.

    In this way you can have multiple instances of spells, but become less versatile by sacrificing spell slots (and the spells you had prepared in them) to do so.
    Last edited by Vermithrax; 2010-07-09 at 08:04 AM.

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