BARDLOCK. . . forum help me!

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

OKay. . .I really like the idea of a BARDLOCK. . . bard warlock. . . something about it makes me happy. . . I just have no idea how to make it work together with any kind of cohesion and viability. . . i'm not asking to break the game or somehow turn this mix into teir 1. . .

I'd just like some good Feat and PrC options to make this class combo fit together nicely.

Any ideas?

[Prodan]

Warlock10/Virtuoso10

Maybe with a bit of Hellfire sprinkled in there.

[Sc00by]

with no experience at all...

But warlock/bard/eldritch thuerge? Or doesn't that work for some reason?

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

I need to elaborate. . . I'd like somthing that DOESNT focus on music. . . Eldritch theruge is good, but I'd love somthing more creative than that. . . and preferably some feat suggestions. i'd really love somthing that can work with eldritch blast. . .

[Prodan]

Mortalbane

[mcl01]

Virtuoso seconded. I would actually recommend a bard dip as well.

Warlock 6/Bard 1/Virtuoso (advancing Warlock) 10, then finish off with warlock.

Sacrificing the warlock level loses you Energy Resistance 5. That's it. In turn, it nets you 11 bardic music uses/day and +2 Inspire Courage (which can be optimized). You can now pull DFI or IC optimization (harder without 1st level spells for inspirational boost or song of the heart, but still possible) and acquire snowflake wardance.

Eldritch Theurge wouldn't work if he wants to actually use bardic music. Sure it advances bardic casting, but it requires a lot more bard levels and then shafts you in terms of music advancement.

Edit: Ninja'd. What do you exactly want from bard if not the music?

[Prodan]

Then you finish with 3 levels of Hellfire Warlock, not plain boring warlock.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

Virtuoso seconded. I would actually recommend a bard dip as well.

Warlock 6/Bard 1/Virtuoso (advancing Warlock) 10, then finish off with warlock.

Sacrificing the warlock level loses you Energy Resistance 5. That's it. In turn, it nets you 11 bardic music uses/day and +2 Inspire Courage (which can be optimized). You can now pull DFI or IC optimization (harder without 1st level spells for inspirational boost or song of the heart, but still possible) and acquire snowflake wardance.

Eldritch Theurge wouldn't work if he wants to actually use bardic music. Sure it advances bardic casting, but it requires a lot more bard levels and then shafts you in terms of music advancement.

Edit: Ninja'd. What do you exactly want from bard if not the music?

Screw what i said, that actually sounds kinda cool.
I was originally hoping someone would find me some cool alternate use for music(you know . . . like what cleric actually turns undead?) Then going for bard flavor with their spells and skills. I think i could still do that with this build. just actually using the music

[Thurbane]

Don't want to focus on music? Rogue 1/Sorc X/Prestige Bard X/Warlock X/Eldritch Theurge X.

[Siosilvar]

I was originally hoping someone would find me some cool alternate use for music(you know . . . like what cleric actually turns undead?) Then going for bard flavor with their spells and skills. I think i could still do that with this build. just actually using the music

Snowflake Wardance was suggested. Expend a Music use to add +Charisma to hit with one-handed slashing weapons for 1 round per rank in Perform (dance).

Dragonfire Inspiration requires Dragontouched (or another way to get the dragonblood subtype) but changes your Inspire Courage bonus with fire damage.

[mcl01]

Virtuoso songs are nice musical effects. Mass diplomacy, mass stabilizing allies, mass disrupt enemy spellcasting, mass rage, a dominate person effect, and mass true seeing. See if your DM will allow a harmonizing weapon or the lingering song feat to apply to your virtuoso performance for more goodness. You get number of uses per day equal to your virtuoso level. You can also sub in 2 bardic music uses as a replacement.

In melee, you can do a TWF snowflake wardance character or eldritch glaive. Personally, I'd go the eldritch glaive route. Keep in mind though that you'll only have slightly better than poor BAB, however. IC helps though depending on your cheese tolerance. An effective 11th level bard music + Vest of Legends, MW drums, Badge of courage nets you +6 IC. Words of creation makes that +12.

Complete Adventurer also has Bardic Music feats that allow you to use Bardic Music for other effects. The only one I think i would find useful here is Chant of Fortitude, which basically grants Diehard for 1 round to all allies. Lyric spell is quite spectacular, but you don't have any arcane spells except cantrips in this build.

In general, I'd pump your Charisma through the roof and try to take advantage of that. UMD, high invocation save DCs, diplomacy/bluff/intimidate, virtuoso abilities, etc. Veil of allure also helps, giving you a flat +2 to Cha based save DCs for slightly less than a cloak of charisma +4. They both happen to stack as well.

[Fizban]

The only way I can think of for Bard to pump Warlock is Dragonfire Inspiration.

Standard Hellfire Glaivelock with a dip in Bard with Dragontouched, Dragonfire Inspiration, Inspirational Boost spell, a Badge of Valor, and a Masterwork Mandolin for an extra 4d6 fire on top of the blast and hellfire. You lose 1 die from Warlock, gain +4d6 from dragonfire and +6d6 from hellfire. Then you make a full touch attack. Disco inferno. Costs you 1 level, 2 feats, and some petty cash over the standard Hellfire Glaivelock (2 more feats if you want to change the dragonfire to sonic).

Edit: oh, and you'll probably want Extra Music so you can do it more than 1/day. So cost is 3 more feats than usual.

[Prodan]

Is it possible to go Warlock 6/Binder1/Virtuoso2/Hellfire Warlock 3/Virtuoso 8?

[dextercorvia]

The only way I can think of for Bard to pump Warlock is Dragonfire Inspiration.

Standard Hellfire Glaivelock with a dip in Bard with Dragontouched, Dragonfire Inspiration, Inspirational Boost spell, a Badge of Valor, and a Masterwork Mandolin for an extra 4d6 fire on top of the blast and hellfire. You lose 1 die from Warlock, gain +4d6 from dragonfire and +6d6 from hellfire. Then you make a full touch attack. Disco inferno. Costs you 1 level, 2 feats, and some petty cash over the standard Hellfire Glaivelock (2 more feats if you want to change the dragonfire to sonic).

Edit: oh, and you'll probably want Extra Music so you can do it more than 1/day. So cost is 3 more feats than usual.

I don't think you can apply DFI or IC to Eldritch Glaive. It still counts as an SLA, and you can't apply Bardic Music abilities to weaponlike spells, so I doubt you can do it to weaponlike SLA's.

[mcl01]

I don't think you can apply DFI or IC to Eldritch Glaive. It still counts as an SLA, and you can't apply Bardic Music abilities to weaponlike spells, so I doubt you can do it to weaponlike SLA's.

Oh sadness. Still, IC isn't without use. You're still adding a large to hit bonus to a touch attack. It's 2-handed too, so you get a good bonus from PA as well (unless I'm mistaken). Plus, +5 attack/damage to all party members attack/damage rolls before words of creation is nothing to sneeze at.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

IC is for the rest of the party, not for yourself. You turn on IC, then use something like Lingering Melody so you don't have to blow actions on it anymore, then wade in with your Glaive while the rest of the party has an extra handful of d6's on each of their attacks. It's like a DFI Bard in the party... PLUS a Glaivelock.

Another interesting method would be Rogue3/Conjurer (with Swift Jaunt ACF) (banning Evoc and Nec) 1/Warlock x/Prestige Bard10

Rogue3 nets you a lot of fun things. +2d6 sneak attack (which you can reasonably get to apply on nearly every hit), but the big thing is Evasion.

Conjurer to meet spell prerequsites, although interrupt-action teleports are always fun and entertaining

Warlock for the meat and potatoes of the build, with Prestige Bard advancing Warlock casting.

You can quite easily get some pretty nasty stuff going. Pick up a wand (or eternal wand, if you like) of Song of the Heart or Inspirational Boost. Have fun.

Oh, and get Draconic Heretage (Battle Dragon) for making all those bonus d6's Sonic rather than Fire damage.

[Fizban]

Eldritch Glaive text: "As a full-round action, you can make a single melee touch attack as if wielding a reach weapon." Implies weapon. "If you hit, the target is affected as though by your Eldritch Blast." Implies Spell.

Dragonfire Inspiration text: "extra 1d6 fire damage with his weapons". Adds to weapon damage.

Huh, that is some sad interaction. You attack as a weapon, but since you don't deal damage with the attack, you can't add the inspiration. Guess that explains why I've never seen an Eldritch Glaive Power attack build. Oh well.

[Prodan]

Why Power Attack when you can use Hellfire?

[dextercorvia]

Huh, that is some sad interaction. You attack as a weapon, but since you don't deal damage with the attack, you can't add the inspiration. Guess that explains why I've never seen an Eldritch Glaive Power attack build. Oh well.

Yeah, it's a weapon-like SLA. But, so is regular EB. I find it useful to think of it as saying: Reduce the range of your EB to 10 for the ability to add your Str instead of Dex to the attack roll, Str to damage, extra attacks based on BAB, and threaten AoO's until the end of the round.

[Tinydwarfman]

Why Power Attack when you can use Hellfire?

Why not both?

[Prodan]

The rules?

[Pechvarry]

I don't know how to optimize this to be super potent, but it'd be cool to go for a glaive build and hit Seeker of the Song. Some swift action blasts to pair with eldritch blast when you want to play ranged, and some nice defensive benefits while singing to go along with melee mode. Requires bardic music, which you should gain from level 1 Virtuoso (or just, you know, bard). With the aforementioned Virtuoso build, it may be fun to take a 2 level dip in Seeker anyway just for Combine Song.

[mcl01]

Thing is Seeker of the Song doesn't advanced spellcasting. You don't actually get bardic music from Virtuoso either (virtuoso levels simply stack with bard levels for uses/day and advancing bard songs you already have). Even with a 2 level seeker dip, You end up losing another one of your dark invocations, leaving you at 1 dark invocation at 20th level.

If you actually go all the way, then I don't know what to say. You'll be Warlock 9/Bard 1 (I wouldn't recommend virtuoso at all)/Seeker of the Song 10. You'll have 1st level bard casting (yay cantrips?), 9th level invocations (only 5 invocations, capped out at lesser), and seeker songs with 11 uses/day.

Sure, the seeker blasting is actually rather tasty for blasting, but it's still blasting. You do get a 15d6 sonic ray, and 2x 10d6 acid ray, and a mini chain lightning, but I think only sonic ray does anything extremely special, just because it's sonic. You're very limited with only 11 uses per day (and since the blasting songs are refrains, you need to use 2+ to blast the first time). The spelldeath effect is rather nice, but your allied casters will hate you for it. Overall, the bardic flavor is nice, but you lose out overall with warlock power. And it's plainly not as effective/versatile.