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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

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    Default [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    So, Playgrounders, I'm playing a Beguiler, so this dispute is rather important to me. Can Nondetection negate the effects of True Seeing, so long as the opposing spellcaster doesn't make the DC 15+caster level check?

    It may not help with other things, but it'd be nice to keep Mirror Image and Displacement.


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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ashiel's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by Jergmo View Post
    So, Playgrounders, I'm playing a Beguiler, so this dispute is rather important to me. Can Nondetection negate the effects of True Seeing, so long as the opposing spellcaster doesn't make the DC 15+caster level check?

    It may not help with other things, but it'd be nice to keep Mirror Image and Displacement.
    As far as my reading of it, yes, it should prevent it. It blocks divination spells that the target would be subject to.

    Alternative, the Invisible Spell meta-magic feat + fog cloud or similar effect can royally screw over someone with True Seeing.

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    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
    Douglas's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    This is a pretty hotly debated subject, at times. Personally, I think the list of examples makes it clear that the intent is to block scrying, locate, and detect-type spells - the kind of things useful for tracking people down, observing them remotely, and determining their thoughts/alignment/magic items/etc. Making invisibility harder to beat is (imo) not on the list.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    This is a pretty hotly debated subject, at times. Personally, I think the list of examples makes it clear that the intent is to block scrying, locate, and detect-type spells - the kind of things useful for tracking people down, observing them remotely, and determining their thoughts/alignment/magic items/etc. Making invisibility harder to beat is (imo) not on the list.
    I agree with douglas, if it meant all divination it be easier to say all divination. That said it is in the end up to your DM.

    Consider the shadow weave magic feat, followed by the Insidious Magic feat. That would protect your spells from being revealed by a divination.
    Last edited by Lord Vukodlak; 2010-07-05 at 11:40 AM.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    Nondetection should have a chance to foil True Seeing and See Invisibility, because these are divination spells that detect, visually.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Nondetection should have a chance to foil True Seeing and See Invisibility, because these are divination spells that detect, visually.
    Except they don't detect you in the same way, detect evil or scrying do. See invisibility and true seeing don't detect you they simply remove the magic your using to conceal yourself from the equation.
    Last edited by Lord Vukodlak; 2010-07-05 at 12:00 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Nondetection should have a chance to foil True Seeing and See Invisibility, because these are divination spells that detect, visually.
    Disagreed.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vukodlak View Post
    I agree with douglas, if it meant all divination it be easier to say all divination. That said it is in the end up to your DM.

    Consider the shadow weave magic feat, followed by the Insidious Magic feat. That would protect your spells from being revealed by a divination.
    *Glee* Thank you, I'm going to have to grab these feats. Screw Spell Focus(Enchantment), Shadow Weave Magic coming through. The question is, then, wait two levels for Insidious Magic, or give up the ability to have mind-affecting spells affect intelligent undead for the same...


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    DM: "Sunder the wall?! WT**** kind of tactics are these!?"
    Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
    DM: They didn't do it with swords!
    Me: Which makes us so much cooler.

    Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
    Me: They're right behind you. Vesil is covered in Loki's blood. That is their location in relation to you.
    Player: I was just wondering about a fireball.

    My Homebrew

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vukodlak View Post
    Except they don't detect you in the same way, detect evil or scrying do. See invisibility and true seeing don't detect you they simply remove the magic your using to conceal yourself from the equation.
    I can't agree with that, because that's not in the description for what the divination school does. Divination spells don't remove anything; that would be either abjuration (like Dispel Magic) or evocation (like Invisibility Purge). Divination spells detect things.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Claudius Maximus's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    There's a class in PGtF called Shadow Adept that gives all three advanced shadow weave feats with a dip. You might want to look into that.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Nondetection dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    There's a class in PGtF called Shadow Adept that gives all three advanced shadow weave feats with a dip. You might want to look into that.
    Only classes from Core and the Complete series are allowed, sadly - only feats from everywhere.


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    DM: "Sunder the wall?! WT**** kind of tactics are these!?"
    Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
    DM: They didn't do it with swords!
    Me: Which makes us so much cooler.

    Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
    Me: They're right behind you. Vesil is covered in Loki's blood. That is their location in relation to you.
    Player: I was just wondering about a fireball.

    My Homebrew

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