Player playing the same PC over and over

[pluizig]

I've been playing D&D3.5 on-and-off for a while now, in mostly the same group. We've had three different campaigns now, and one of my friends has played mostly the same character in all of them: a reckless, arrogant evoker -a bit like himself, really. They even had about 70% the same spell list.

Most of the time, this didn't matter. Sure, the rest of us thought he was limiting his experience a bit, not trying anything new, but that was his choice. He also had the personality down very wel, roleplay-wise.

When we asked about why he didn't differ from his usual concept that much, he explained that he really likes the mechanics of a blaster mage, wants to play it a bit further (we haven't ever even passed lv.5) and thinks that recklessness and arrogance suit a wizard well. Fair enough. He also contested that his PCs have been *that* similar, highlighting secondary and tertiary characteristics.

Until now, this hasn't been a problem. After all, a new campaign is a new campaign and we've been giving ourselves the freedom to roleplay the way we want. Depending on the DM, the focus has been mostly on story and not mechanics. (One of our current players is even playing a samurai and enjoying it.)

Last session, however, this player's PC died. It was very much a consequence of his recklessness and arrogance. He went scouting in a (small) dungeon by himself, got poisoned by a trap, didn't go back or heal himself and died from the secondary CON damage by himself, literally face down crawling in the mud.

When I (the DM) and the other longstanding players told him it would be nice if his new character wasn't going to be version 7.0 of his standard character, this player became a bit upset. He argued that it was his choice how he should play his own characters and that we couldn't limit him in this. He would feel restricted having to play in a certain way just because he would not be 'allowed' to show too much of his previous character(s).

The rest of us tried to convince him that if his new character was too much the same, it would cheapen death, as he could always roll up an almost-carbon copy and continue as normal. Especially because the returning characteristics in his PCs were exactly what got him killed in the first place. We all envisioned his newly rolled PC going down exactly the same path.

I even offered him to change the heavy CON damage into a permanent CON penalty, so that the character would live, but be changed by and having learned from his experience and thus develop. (I know that would cheapen death as well, but at least it would not result in another version of the same bloody character.) He declined this too, saying that we would always check if he was 'different enough' now.

At the end of the session, he said that he would roll up a new PC for the next session, but that it *will* be an evoker wizard, "because that is what I enjoy playing" (he wouldn't even consider a sorcerer), but that he will "do his best to give him some new personality traits." I really want to believe him -he is a good friend of mine, a pretty good roleplayer (despite what I've written here) and we always play at his place, but at the same time I'm scared that he'll just go on as he has done before.

What should I do? As a DM, I can tell him to choose a different class or *main* personality type. (His "maybe I'll play an old guy" doesn't give me much hope, for example.) But I want to give him a chance to try and change his style before I tell him what to do. After all, it *is* his character and not mine. Whatever happens, it won't be easy to change once he's started playing his new PC. Any thoughts?

[Prime32]

Try pointing him to the warmage class, which knows blasty spells automatically and gets damage boosts.

Maybe this version. </shameless plug>

[pluizig]

I doubt it, since he's already rejected both sorcerer and warlock. Besides, this is more of a roleplay problem than a mechanics/rules problem.

[kamikasei]

Is the problem that you guys are bothered by his playing the same character over and over? Or is it that the character he keeps playing is problematic in itself?

Because if it's the former, I can't really sympathize - it may be weird or a little boring, but it is, indeed, his character and he's not obliged to vary things to keep you entertained. While if it's the latter, then that's a problem quite apart from the fact that the character keeps recurring - if a single incarnation of the character is a problem, then address that, and leave the carbon copy issue aside.

[Ravens_cry]

Only one thing to do.
Hide behind the pile of dead bards evokers.

[potatocubed]

I'm with kamikasei. If he's happy playing the same kind of character over and over, that's his choice.

[Ingus]

Put it this way: "Since now (after he did his character), anyone, I repeat, anyone doing a character, would roll the stats in front of me and he's not allowed to change them, not even for places. Moreover, he/she will roll on a table of random salient personality traits" (I guess there are some in PHII and maybe in UA).
If you want to be soft, you can try it as the end, for a new campaign/adventure

This, after the introduction of his last character, would be a deterrent on his premature death. On the other hand, if the deterrent doesn't work, he'll be forced to roll on a table to choose stats (and thus class) and personality. If he rolls a 18 on Int and the traits "arrogant" and "reckless", so you're really unlucky.

In the end, you feel it like a problem so it is, but try not to be too harsh: Raistlin has spoiled generations of players on the way they see a powerful wizard.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm with kamikasei. If he's happy playing the same kind of character over and over, that's his choice.

Same here.



Some people just like to play a certain type of character. I know a guy who's obsessed with Monks and Wizards and practically always plays one or the other, or a multiclass Monk/Wizard (and is frequently a tiefling). I know another guy who usually plays the arrogant loudmouth no matter what his actual character is. And there's nothing wrong with either of them. We don't demand they play different characters because doing so would be ridiculous.


EDIT:

Put it this way: "Since now (after he did his character), anyone, I repeat, anyone doing a character, would roll the stats in front of me and he's not allowed to change them, not even for places. Moreover, he/she will roll on a table of random salient personality traits" (I guess there are some in PHII and maybe in UA).
If you want to be soft, you can try it as the end, for a new campaign/adventure

This, after the introduction of his last character, would be a deterrent on his premature death. On the other hand, if the deterrent doesn't work, he'll be forced to roll on a table to choose stats (and thus class) and personality. If he rolls a 18 on Int and the traits "arrogant" and "reckless", so you're really unlucky.

In the end, you feel it like a problem so it is, but try not to be too harsh: Raistlin has spoiled generations of players on the way they see a powerful wizard.

Nobody I know would play in that game.

[pluizig]

Is the problem that you guys are bothered by his playing the same character over and over? Or is it that the character he keeps playing is problematic in itself?

Because if it's the former, I can't really sympathize - it may be weird or a little boring, but it is, indeed, his character and he's not obliged to vary things to keep you entertained. While if it's the latter, then that's a problem quite apart from the fact that the character keeps recurring - if a single incarnation of the character is a problem, then address that, and leave the carbon copy issue aside.

Well, we've never had a problem with him playing the same character over and over, but don't you think it's a little jarring if a PC dies and a player replaces him with an almost-but-not-quite the same PC and plays along like nothing happened?

Like if Tordek the LG Dwarven fighter in chainmail died and got replaced by Gordek the LG Dwarven fighter in half-plate?

[Aroka]

I'm with kamikasei. If he's happy playing the same kind of character over and over, that's his choice.

Me too. If he prefers playing something, let him play that.

The characters' similar personalities are explained by not being a deeply involved roleplayer; most people just play an avatar with some vague, unimportant personal characteristics tacked on. This shouldn't be much of a problem unless the game is supposed to be all about characters and personalities, rather than dungeons, dragons, and heroic deeds.

He'll either improve or not, but you can't force it - that sort of development would have to be self-motivated.

[Prime32]

Well, we've never had a problem with him playing the same character over and over, but don't you think it's a little jarring if a PC dies and a player replaces him with an almost-but-not-quite the same PC and plays along like nothing happened?

Like if Tordek the LG Dwarven fighter in chainmail died and got replaced by Gordek the LG Dwarven fighter in half-plate?

Didn't that happen in Voltron?

[kamikasei]

Well, we've never had a problem with him playing the same character over and over, but don't you think it's a little jarring if a PC dies and a player replaces him with an almost-but-not-quite the same PC and plays along like nothing happened?

Do I think it's jarring? Yes. Do I think it matters? No. It's not my problem.

This sort of thing can be an issue when it creates or facilitates metagaming, such as when a player whose character dies because of another brings along said character's identical twin who has an inexplicable grudge against the responsible party. But if the replacement character just happens to be very similar to the original but isn't trying to pick up the original's role in the plot, then that's weird and I'd prefer people I play with not to do it but my preference isn't really a factor and it's up to them, not to me, what they want to play.

If a particular character type proved a bad fit for the game to the extent of getting the character killed, and the player wants to make the same type of character again, it makes sense to say "maybe you should consider something that would fit in better" - but that's just the same bit of preemptive caution that I think all chargen should involved, simply backed up with the fact that you have fresh evidence of exactly what kind of problems might occur.

[Raistlin1040]

Well, we've never had a problem with him playing the same character over and over, but don't you think it's a little jarring if a PC dies and a player replaces him with an almost-but-not-quite the same PC and plays along like nothing happened?

Like if Tordek the LG Dwarven fighter in chainmail died and got replaced by Gordek the LG Dwarven fighter in half-plate?

I'm with you here, OP. I'm against this sort of thing. A game is a narrative. Every character has a role to fill, both from a thematic standpoint and a practical one. If you're running a standard four man party, and your healer dies, we're not going to make the player sit on the sidelines, and we're not going to let the party go without a healer. To fill the practical problem of "We need someone to make sure we don't die", a new character needs to join. But it makes death stupid if the same character comes back, and it doesn't do much for interesting inter-party roleplay or for a good story either.

[SilverSheriff]

In the end, you feel it like a problem so it is, but try not to be too harsh: Raistlin has spoiled generations of players on the way they see a powerful wizard.

Well, thats just, like, your opinion man!

eh, at the moment I'm playing a similar character, not that I always play this one character. I am rather partial to the Rogue myself.

[pluizig]

Me too. If he prefers playing something, let him play that.

The characters' similar personalities are explained by not being a deeply involved roleplayer; most people just play an avatar with some vague, unimportant personal characteristics tacked on. This shouldn't be much of a problem unless the game is supposed to be all about characters and personalities, rather than dungeons, dragons, and heroic deeds.

He'll either improve or not, but you can't force it - that sort of development would have to be self-motivated.

Oh yeah. Maybe I should've mentioned that. Much of our game is, in fact, about characters and personalities. I know half the group (including this player) from acting class. Typically we run into one or two combat encounters per five-hour session.

[Kiero]

Is the problem that you guys are bothered by his playing the same character over and over? Or is it that the character he keeps playing is problematic in itself?

Because if it's the former, I can't really sympathize - it may be weird or a little boring, but it is, indeed, his character and he's not obliged to vary things to keep you entertained. While if it's the latter, then that's a problem quite apart from the fact that the character keeps recurring - if a single incarnation of the character is a problem, then address that, and leave the carbon copy issue aside.

This. If his character isn't problematic in and of itself, then that's everyone else's problem and they need to get over it. Maybe he has a problem, but it's not the preserve of anyone else to forcibly fix it for him.

[Aroka]

Then you (all of you, preferrably) need to talk about it with the player, explain that you're all about the characters and personalities, and that he needs to get with the program or find a group that suits him better.

Or you can suck it up and let him play the way he wants, even if it makes the game less fun for y'all.

[Snake-Aes]

He really just likes that interpretation. How long have you guys been playing? Those things tend to water down over the course of a year, and he starts trying different things every now and then.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, we've never had a problem with him playing the same character over and over, but don't you think it's a little jarring if a PC dies and a player replaces him with an almost-but-not-quite the same PC and plays along like nothing happened?

Like if Tordek the LG Dwarven fighter in chainmail died and got replaced by Gordek the LG Dwarven fighter in half-plate?

If he just happens to be tied up in the next room of the dungeon, sure. If, however, he joins up after a night of revelry in the town after coming back from the dungeon? Not so much.

A big hulking warrior in half-plate walks up, and says "Ach, laddie, I hear your last bodyguard got himself et. What bloody rotten luck. I am, however, looking for work, and you seem to be short a bodyguard...."

You just, you know, need to have the world at large have some knowledge of what's expected in a team of adventurers.

[Sliver]

Put it this way: "Since now (after he did his character), anyone, I repeat, anyone doing a character, would roll the stats in front of me and he's not allowed to change them, not even for places. Moreover, he/she will roll on a table of random salient personality traits" (I guess there are some in PHII and maybe in UA).
If you want to be soft, you can try it as the end, for a new campaign/adventure

This, after the introduction of his last character, would be a deterrent on his premature death. On the other hand, if the deterrent doesn't work, he'll be forced to roll on a table to choose stats (and thus class) and personality. If he rolls a 18 on Int and the traits "arrogant" and "reckless", so you're really unlucky.

So for not playing the style you want, you will punish him and everybody else? That is a punishment, you know? "No, you don't get to choose what your character is like!" doesn't sound like a fun campaign concept.

The player has no obligation towards entertaining any of you but him, as long as he isn't directly ruining your fun. And playing a non destructive character that is created from the same basic mold so you don't find it interesting isn't ruining your fun. If asking him to make something else doesn't help, then you just leave it as is.

[Ruinix]

1- his way of roleplay, his interpretation of his character way is problematic? then resolve with the player, if he dont understand then resolve as DM, u can obligate someone to do anything, and if he dont undestand why and continue been problematic then he shouldn't be on your game, friend or not.

2- if his RP is ok then is his choice. u can always put a NPC or any of ur others players can make a character who "control" this guy, it should be easy as u guys know very well their PCs.

[AstralFire]

How long have you all been playing?

[Morph Bark]

One of my players is very similar, except he enjoys playing Paladins instead of evoker wizards. In our first campaign (that ended before level 3 even) he was a Paladin. The second, a gestalt Cleric/Paladin. The third, he used a homebrew class that was rather gishy with something akin to rage, but it also had a code of conduct like the Paladin. The fourth and fifth saw him moving away from this, though the characters were never evil or chaotic. Our current campaign has him as a Paladin again, though now a homebrew version. Also, everytime he has taken up playing RPGs or MMOs, he'd prefer playing the Paladin-y types. See a pattern there? I've told him in our next campaign Paladins won't fit as PCs since it will be a pirate campaign, and he has agreed to that, but I highly doubt he will be very evil or chaotic, unless pressured by circumstances.

Thing is, as long as he is having fun and the group is having fun, it doesn't really matter. If you see it as a problem, ask him why he thinks it is. Also going beyond level 5 might help, since tons of fun can be had at higher levels, and he might just be really hoping to finally be able to cast fourth-level and higher evocation spells!

[pluizig]

We've been playing for almost two years now. We've had two or three two-month breaks though. The times we play regularly, we play bi-weekly for five or six hours.

And I'd like to stress this point again: it's not his repeated playing style, or even his chosen class that bothers us, but rather that his character died, and that going on with a very similar character (especially in terms of personality), this cheapens the impact of death. It's like he never left, so why even bother having him die?

[Bagel]

Only one thing to do.
Hide behind the pile of dead bards evokers.

Made my day, now i have to watch both movies again :P

honestly there isn't a whole lot you can do, but if he somehow keeps ending up rerolling clones from his own arrogance and stupidity he will either eventually learn or stop playing out of frustration.

[Curmudgeon]

If you'd provided a setting where people could really develop their characters, then it might be a good idea to encourage diversity in character types. But if you've never passed level 5, the main limitation is in your games ─ not the character.

I suggest you get past level 20 a few times before restricting character choice.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would suggest you ask him to try something else. Offer him a plot bribe to play a character with plot behind him that you tie into the game strongly. This gives you the a "reason" to have some controls for his character. He likes an offensive style in combat, so don't go that far from that.

Consider suggesting he play an orb heavy conjorur who is tied up in the meta plot. Try to get him to move his character just a little bit out of his comfort zone. Don't make this a punishment, but make it an opertunity. Don't push to hard, let him stay arogent, but suggest calculateing rather than reckless. let his understanding of the character evolve.

It will give him more options (summoning, blasty orbs, and fogs) so he can survive if he is caught alone.

The other option is to quietly make the game more dangerous. That will make going off and doing stuff alone more dangerous. The problem sould self correct if your player likes to avoid dieing. If you go this route, you should ether say that you are upping the dificulty of the game a bit, or say absolutly nothing. Remember that it helps nothing to think of your player as at fault. He just needs to move his comfort zone and still have fun.

[kamikasei]

It's like he never left, so why even bother having him die?

Surely the original character had done things this new one hasn't, had met people, had formed relationships, had discovered things etc. that don't carry over. Don't those count?

[Ehra]

A game is a narrative.

A game is a game, which are meant for people to have fun with. If he wants to play only one type of character then that's his choice, all it takes for everyone else is a little suspension of disbelief. Isn't that what role playing is? Lots of imagination and pretending?

This could even be made into some kind of plot hook for the campaign setting (do you guys use the same setting for your games?). Maybe all of the Wizards from Evokerville are arrogant, reckless, loudmouths. Maybe there's something in the water, possibly put there intentionally by someone else. Maybe the neighboring Conjurerburg wants to wipe Evokerville off the map because they're jealous of Evokers being known as the kings of Blast, even though Conjurers are way awesome plus have tons of other things they can do. Heck, there could be some kind of cold war going on between all of the wizarding villages as certain schools try to knock off their rivals so the rest of the world will come to them to solve their problems (Diviner Town moved to the other side of the world a long time ago, selling their land before the threat of arcane death skyrocketed and the worth of the land plummeted).

There are a near infinite number of things that can be done to make this "work," the only limit is how far the rest of the group is willing to go to accommodate one of its own players.

Now if he starts taking advantage of this, throwing his character into stupid deaths then remaking the same character again, then something needs to be talked about. But, going by what the OP said, this isn't very likely.

[prufock]

If they're carbon copies, insist on calling his new character by his old character's name. Don't object to his new character at all.