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Thread: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
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2010-07-06, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Can someone UMD a runestaff?
I was browsing over the PHB section on skills, and the example for UMD having a class feature to activate a magic item, mentions Lida UMD the ability to "spend" a turn undead attempt.
Now by this one could UMD spending a spell slot to activate a Runestaff right?
I think now my rogue will be more than happy once we visit a big city
What do you think?
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2010-07-06, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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- Beyond Poisonthorn Acre
Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
Only if you're Hawkmoon.
No, seriously, at-will spell-like abilities requiring nothing but a skill check is way unbalanced. Shouldn't be allowed.
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2010-07-06, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
By RAW the answer is certainly yes. Every time she makes the check, she gets the free spell. In practice I would limit it (2-4 times per day, or scaling DC to activate). Never thought of it before, awesome trick I may have to pull. The big question is caster level and save dc, but I think minimum to cast it would be a reasonable assumption.
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2010-07-06, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
I don't have the Mic with me, but I think they are only useable 1/day per spell in the staff, so I think that balances it somewhat.
but my questions is by RAW would using UMD with a runestaff be allowed.
YAY!!!
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2010-07-06, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-06, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
As I said I don't have MIC handy at the moment, but I think Runestaffs need the expenditure of the spell slot to activate, so by my reading you are UMD'ing the expenditure of a spell slot.
I might be wrong though, that's why I figured I should ask.
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2010-07-06, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
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2010-07-06, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
I don't remember any example of Lidda using UMD to give her a TU attempt. You could use UMD to replicate the presence of the TU feature (which would allow you to activate an item that required the TU feature), but not actually spending a TU attempt to channel energy into the item.
Similarly, you can use UMD to simulate the "arcane spellcasting" class ability, thus allowing you to use Spell Trigger items like wands, but you don't actually gain any spell slots.
So yea, you can trick the Runestaff into thinking that you are a sorcerer, but it would see you as a sorcerer who's spell slots are depleted, since you don't actually have any slots to expend for its abilities.
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2010-07-06, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-06, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
Now if you have a wand with the same level of spell in it, you might convice the rune staff that you have 50 of that spell ready to go, and just feed it the wand. Or even better convince it that you wand of acid splash is the right level. Mwah ha ha ha ha ha.
-nah, the dc would be really high. If you could get glibness first, maybe.My homebrew
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2010-07-06, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-08, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
The Hierophant PrC in the DMG has an ablility (Gift of the Divine) to transfer 1 or more of their Turn Undead attempts to another willing creature.
So... yea. There's a TU for a non-cleric to UMD with.
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2010-07-08, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-08, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
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2010-07-08, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
A little bit off topic. But if you used UMD to replicate just having the Turn Undead feature, and you were carrying Nightsticks, could you expend a turn undead feature from the nightstick?
Because the way I'm reading it is that for the hour or use, it gives you the class feature at 0 uses, but if you have an item that would increase that number of uses above zero, then?
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2010-07-08, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-08, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
Good find!
Also: Dragonsblood Pool mentioned in this guide can be used to obtain arcane spell slots. The problem is, if it can be pulled off by a non-caster. I don't have the specific wording for the Pool unfortunately. If the answer is "yes", then the problem of runestaves would be solved eventualy.In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.
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2010-07-08, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
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2010-07-08, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
Spell slot Nightsticks? Wicked!
Also: I just noticed, that according to Doc Rocs' guide, Dragonsblood Pool requires ability to cast second level spells and being a spontaneous caster. The first is obtained through mentioned Magical Training + Precautious Apprentice trick, the second most probably through UMD (if you can trick an item, you probably can trick a location, right?). Unfortunately you can't obtain slots of arbitrary high level.In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.
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2010-07-08, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- In an Octopus's Garden
Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
Actually, Magical Training gives you the choice between Spontaneous and Prepared casting. You'll need an enhancer like Sanctum Spell, or Improved Krau Sigil to get that 3rd level slot out of the Dragonsblood Pool. If you have gone that far, take Earth Spell, and... well you'll see. It's fairly feat intensive to get higher level casting without any actual levels in a spellcasting class, but it isn't impossible.
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2010-07-08, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
Sorry; while the UMD + Nightstick trick looks legit, that one doesn't work.
Once per day on command, a memento magica enables its possessor to regain any one spell slot that she had previously used that day.
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2010-07-08, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
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2010-07-08, 05:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
UMD would let you use the runestaff, but unless your rogue actually has spell slots to power it, he would be unable to use the runestaff at all. Similarly, "faking" a spell slot to sacrifice is not one of the uses of UMD. You are merely treated as having that class feature for purposes of interacting with said item, you don't actually have any to burn.
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2010-07-09, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
Hmm. I wonder if a divine caster could use UMD to convince the runestaff that they are an arcane caster and that the spell slots they are sacrificing are actually arcane rather than divine? Probably not, but it'd be cool if they could.
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2010-07-10, 12:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: Can someone UMD a runestaff?
It wouldn't be at-will anyway, nor would it be spell-like; runestaffs are limited to 2-3 times per day per spell, and are cast as the spells (requiring verbal, material, XP, and focus components as appropriate, although somatic ones are handled by manipulating the staff itself).
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.