4e- Latest Errata

[Asbestos]

I didn't see a thread for this so... bam!

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateJuly2010.pdf


I don't understand the reasoning for some of these changes, particularly the rewrite of Magic Missile. I guess the "omg, Magic Missile can miss? 4e is teh suck!" crowd got their way?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I thinkthe hybrid wizard|rogue, will be happy with that change....

[Reverent-One]

The one thing I saw that confuses me is the change in Static Shock's (from the Eberron book) range change. "Melee 5"? So it can reach 5 squares, but still counts as a melee attack for all intents and purposes?

[Asbestos]

The one thing I saw that confuses me is the change in Static Shock's (from the Eberron book) range change. "Melee 5"? So it can reach 5 squares, but still counts as a melee attack for all intents and purposes?

Possibly because '1 Creature in Close Burst 5' is too awkward? I'm not really sure.

[Asbestos]

I thinkthe hybrid wizard|rogue, will be happy with that change....

Why? It does pathetic damage and I thought hybrid Rogues could only SA with Rogue powers (or something, I might be wrong)

[Thajocoth]

Magic Missile actually became really abusable. Pump it up with all the White Lotus feats, Take the level 1 daily, get ways of recharging that daily... Eventually make it an an encounter power... Add the cold damage type to it, take the cold feats... You can pump everything into it.

Now it doesn't HIT. It EFFECTS. Most of that stuff is suddenly gone.

[Asbestos]

You can no longer, by RAW, take an ungodly amount of free actions at once. Finally.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Why? It does pathetic damage and I thought hybrid Rogues could only SA with Rogue powers (or something, I might be wrong)

Because she is of the crew that was sad because MM required an attack roll, and maybe I am wrong but I think the DM houseruled a feat that let her apply SA with all her powers.

[Runestar]

Time to stop throwing lv30 minions against that 1st lv wizard...

[Meta]

You can no longer, by RAW, take an ungodly amount of free actions at once. Finally.

Alas, by RAW you still can. By RAI certainly not, but things like Ardent Fury and Rending Weapons do not specify what sort of action they are and a savvy player can argue that they are No actions. And there is nothing currently to work against them. I applaud wotc for nerfing TWO and Follow-up Blow (t2 of the offenders that DO specify a free action) but by their own wording the nerf is very unclear and not altogether effective. Also, the errata only stop free action attack stacking and as I pointed out, inconsistently

As to the magic missile nerf, I had a thread floating around a whiles back that averaged over 150 dpr with MM abuse

[Swordgleam]

My first instinct was that auto-killing a minion is too powerful, since every once in a while there's been minions that do a hilarious amount of damage because the party just plain can't hit them due to a string of bad rolls. Then I remembered that my party has no wizard and most of a wizard's attacks can take out half a dozen minions at once if they're standing close enough together.

[Makiru]

At least Harmonious Thunder finally got fixed to not do infinite damage. And apparently no more Windrise Port cheese, either.

[Meta]

My first instinct was that auto-killing a minion is too powerful, since every once in a while there's been minions that do a hilarious amount of damage because the party just plain can't hit them due to a string of bad rolls. Then I remembered that my party has no wizard and most of a wizard's attacks can take out half a dozen minions at once if they're standing close enough together.

Agreed, wotc saw the chance to nerf an extremely potent striker at-will on a controller whilst 'returning to a 3e classic.' In retrospect this is to be expected as they are cutting down on classes that masquerade as other roles. Thus why avenger AC has been a veritable roller coaster ride

[Gralamin]

Agreed, wotc saw the chance to nerf an extremely potent striker at-will on a controller whilst 'returning to a 3e classic.' In retrospect this is to be expected as they are cutting down on classes that masquerade as other roles. Thus why avenger AC has been a veritable roller coaster ride

That, and they cannot decide what to do with Avenger.

The Biggest thing for me was the nerf to Lead the Attack. Sure it needed the nerf. A LOT. But, it was nice as a Warlord to have a power there was no question about whether you'd ever retrain it.

[Meta]

That, and they cannot decide what to do with Avenger.

The Biggest thing for me was the nerf to Lead the Attack. Sure it needed the nerf. A LOT. But, it was nice as a Warlord to have a power there was no question about whether you'd ever retrain it.

I think it was a good choice but pales in comparison to the abomination that is Withering Henge and it remains unerfed

[Gralamin]

I think it was a good choice but pales in comparison to the abomination that is Withering Henge and it remains unerfed

Actually, the version in the Dragon issue was a Stealth Nerf of the version in the original article .

[Meta]

Actually, the version in the Dragon issue was a Stealth Nerf of the version in the original article .

O goodness, I can only imagine the degree of tentacle death the original portrayed

[Jokes]

You can no longer, by RAW, take an ungodly amount of free actions at once. Finally.

*sigh* my rampaging barbarian dies a little inside...

Magic Missile actually became less powerful, not that it was the greatest to begin with. Almost everything (Hunter's Quarry, Warlocks curse, White Lotus feats) require you to hit with an attack, so not even any Versatile Master abuse there. Technically, you can't even add bonuses to damage rolls (wands with the Deadly feature, for instance) since there is no damage roll.

It does make it a pretty decent wand, though. *edit* for classes other than wizard that is. Bards in particular could keep one or two handy for killing minions on the other side of the battlefield.

[HMS Invincible]

I think it was a good choice but pales in comparison to the abomination that is Withering Henge and it remains unerfed

What are you talking about? I looked it up in the compendium and it only brings up withering courage, a warlord power. If that's what you're talking about, it's no worse than being blinded by say, prismatic beam.

PS, what was the original power, before the stealth nerf? Did it last til the end of the encounter?

[Kurald Galain]

Time to stop throwing lv30 minions against that 1st lv wizard...

Well, wizards could one-shot minions right from the start, using Cloud of Daggers. In my experience, this is not worth a "power slot"; heck, it's not even worth carrying a Master Wand for. Whenever minions need killing (and sometimes they don't, because they aren't a real threat) a massive area effect does the trick better.

[Boci]

Was dealing your intelligence modifier as damage to anyone adjacent to you when you teleported multiple times per round really that broken?

[Kurald Galain]

Was dealing your intelligence modifier as damage to anyone adjacent to you when you teleported multiple times per round really that broken?

Yes, in that it was the leading damage-per-round build by a factor of two or so.

[Meta]

What are you talking about? I looked it up in the compendium and it only brings up withering courage, a warlord power. If that's what you're talking about, it's no worse than being blinded by say, prismatic beam.

PS, what was the original power, before the stealth nerf? Did it last til the end of the encounter?

Misspelling. Writhing Henge

[Meta]

Was dealing your intelligence modifier as damage to anyone adjacent to you when you teleported multiple times per round really that broken?

yep. It stacked with some other abilities and teleports could be broken up into multiple moves. You could end up doing hundreds of damage by jumping around

[Demonix]

This is what happens when a card game company gets their hands on an RPG. At the rate errata is coming out, it is pointless to buy hardback books for this edition.

[Oracle_Hunter]

This is what happens when a card game company gets their hands on an RPG. At the rate errata is coming out, it is pointless to buy hardback books for this edition.

Yes, but it makes their DDI very attractive - which is rather the point.

For 4e, you're either buying books to get a sneak peek at the next splatbook before it goes live on DDI, or you're interested in the fluff, pictures and feel of a physical book. People just interested in having a game with solid rules get to shell out $10 for their group whenever they feel like getting an update.

By bifurcating the market, more people get legitimate access to the system and by constantly issuing errata we get a more playable system than the previous errata-by-splatbook method.

[The J Pizzel]

Funny story:

One of my old 3.5 players just starting playing again. Excited to try the new wizard. He says he admits it playes a little different but was still lots of fun and enjoyed controlling the battlefield. He said the only he missed was the old reliable Magic Missile. Fun damage, no attack, never fails.

He'll be excited to hear this!!!

[valadil]

For 4e, you're either buying books to get a sneak peek at the next splatbook before it goes live on DDI, or you're interested in the fluff, pictures and feel of a physical book. People just interested in having a game with solid rules get to shell out $10 for their group whenever they feel like getting an update.

I buy the books because I want something that lasts past WotC's current business model. If I get a craving for some 4e three editions down the road I want to be able to whip out some books instead of trying WotC's site and then checking if I still have my old computer around anywhere.

The wizard in my game is not gonna be happy about the MM nerf. His character was pretty much based on doing stupid damage with it (much to the chagrin of the Avenger). I have a sneaking suspicion he won't even bring up the errata, hoping I somehow missed it.

[Snowstorm]

I, too, prefer DDI over buying all of the splatbooks that come out. The only real downside I find, is that you miss out on some of the sidebars and special rules that come along with the new powers and class features.

Like, the exact rules for a Ranger's beast companion, or some abilities of certain Paragon path powers that say: 'See Sidebar for details'.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I buy the books because I want something that lasts past WotC's current business model. If I get a craving for some 4e three editions down the road I want to be able to whip out some books instead of trying WotC's site and then checking if I still have my old computer around anywhere.

Well, if you want that, I'd say wait until 4e is discontinued and pick up the books you want at a deep discount. Worked with 3.5, didn't it?

I also suspect that WotC will be releasing "compilation" versions of the Core Books at some point with all the Errata fully integrated. It'll probably be towards the end of this "business model" but heck, that's when you'd want the books in the first place

EDIT:
@Snowstorm - DDI has that information in their Rules Comprehendium. Of course, you need a live account to access it, but they have to provide some reason to have a persistant account