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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Previously on Girl Genius:

    Lucrezia is starting to suspect that being Sealed Evil in a Can isn't everything it's made out to be. Zola is finding out that one might just be able to get away with treating Evil as a Toy. And Othar is taking his sweet time to join up with the rest of the party (which just split up, again ).

    But, most importantly, Maxim has a fantastic new Nice Hat.

    Links to Previous Threads
    Girl Genius! (original thread)
    Girl Genius II
    Girl Genius III: Nize Thread!
    Girl Genius IV: Because SCIENCE! is my mistress
    Girl Genius V: Madre de Diodes!
    Girl Genius VI: Der Pestle in Der Kestle
    Girl Genius VII: Get on the Slab, I Want to Get to Work!

    Comic Links
    Link to current comic and link to the beginning of the strip. (Updates MWF @ Midnight [Eastern Time])
    The Continuing Adventures of Othar Tryggvassen, Gentleman Adventurer! (Updated sporadically)
    A compilation (and much easier to read if you're just catching up) of the entries can be found here at the GG website.
    Mirror of the comic found on LiveJournal (Often will update before the main page is updated, so beware of spoilers)
    Mirror of the comic found on Facebook (Will occasionally have Girl Genius related news)
    And one can find mirrors of Girl Genius on deviantArt as well. (Occasionally Kaja will put up or link to interesting GG related art that is found on dA)

    Reference Links
    Wiki Project devoted to to Girl Genius
    Wikipedia entry on Girl Genius.
    TV Tropes page on Girl Genius.
    The Secret Blueprints (NOTE: Contains background information on the GG Universe, so it should probably be read after "catching up" to the newest comic, as it contains many spoilers.)

    Social Media and News Links
    Kaja Foglio's LJ Page and Studio Foglio News LJ Page (Both updated infrequently)
    The News Page on the Girl Genius website. (updated slightly more frequently than the Studio Foglio LJ page)
    Kaja & Phil's Personal Facebook Page (Updated infrequently)
    Links to Webcomic Ranking websites. (Used to have Vote Incentives [sketches, parodies of strips, etc] that were changed daily. Might once again.)
    A twitter account that basically is a catch-all feed for Girl Genius related news.
    Cheyenne Wright's Twitter and LiveJournal Accounts (The colorist's twitter and LJ pages)
    And finally,
    Phil Foglio's LJ page. (updated [str]very very VERY infrequently[/str] once every couple of years)
    Last edited by Porthos; 2010-07-10 at 11:24 PM.
    Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
    Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
    Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
    Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes


    __________________________

    No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    (Updates MWF @ 9pm Pacific Time)
    Um, doesn't it update Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday at 9pm Pacific Time?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    AKA Midnight on Mon/Wed/Fri Eastern Standard. Also, Secret Blueprints might warrant a note that some of its contents have since been retconned/proven incorrect by comic events.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2010-07-10 at 07:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    AKA Midnight on Mon/Wed/Fri Eastern Standard.
    Midnight is potentially ambiguous, and the Foglios live in Seattle (on the Pacific coast). Also, GG conforms to Daylight Saving Time so "Standard" isn't correct either.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Megaduck's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    AKA Midnight on Mon/Wed/Fri Eastern Standard. Also, Secret Blueprints might warrant a note that some of its contents have since been retconned/proven incorrect by comic events.
    Oh? Which ones?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian View Post
    Um, doesn't it update Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday at 9pm Pacific Time?
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    AKA Midnight on Mon/Wed/Fri Eastern Standard. Also, Secret Blueprints might warrant a note that some of its contents have since been retconned/proven incorrect by comic events.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian View Post
    Midnight is potentially ambiguous, and the Foglios live in Seattle (on the Pacific coast). Also, GG conforms to Daylight Saving Time so "Standard" isn't correct either.
    Thanks for pointing that out. I went ahead and changed it to Midnight Eastern Time.

    If people can't figure out what day 12:00 am is on, that's their problem*.

    As for the Secret Blueprints stuff, I'll see if I can come up with something that isn't too wordy and edit in later.

    * More seriously, it says MWF on the GG website, so that's as good as any reason to stick with that.
    Last edited by Porthos; 2010-07-10 at 11:35 PM.
    Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
    Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
    Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
    Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes


    __________________________

    No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Super Early Sneaky Gate is up!

    Spoiler
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    Hmmm. Zola's holding a gun in the last panel of a strip? Straight at the Heroine of the Story? Yep something's about to happen to her.

    Spoiler
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    Like:
    Othar Enters: Stage Left?
    Last edited by Porthos; 2010-07-11 at 01:23 AM.
    Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
    Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
    Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
    Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes


    __________________________

    No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Very interesting.

    Spoiler
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    Well this is a surprising turn of events. Zola did change quickly from helpless to be in absolute control back an forth so many times now, that any continuation of this would be rather silly.

    I wonder how Agatha will be saved here...

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilkar View Post
    Very interesting.

    Spoiler
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    I wonder how Agatha will be saved here...
    Spoiler
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    I am almost certain this is when Othar shows up.

    Consider:
    Spoiler
    Show
    We know from the Dark Future described in Othar's Twitter that:

    A) The Other reappears.
    B) Gil is not in the picture.
    C) There is a marriage between the Houses Heterodyne and Wulfenbach.
    D) Tarvek survives.

    Now Zola having complete control over The Other makes this situation fit perfectly. She saves Tarvek for her own purposes/The Plan, she marries The Baron (who is Wasped and can't refuse), and then things go to hell.

    Maybe the Giesters revolt against her. Maybe Zola really is incompetent on some level. Maybe someone decides to try to use nukes to stop The Other.

    Who knows why, exactly.

    But the situation in this room describes everything we had been told. Zola kills Agatha and Gil (who are incapacitated on the floor) and takes Agatha's place as the True Heterodyne (which the town now expects to see, since the lightshow went off).

    This almost has to be the situation that Othar has been sent to stop.

    In fact, it's a nice piece of misdirection on the Foglio's part. When we read the Twitter Feed, I think most of us presumed that it would be Lucrezia!Agatha that would marry the Baron (because of all of the stuff about the "Heterodyne" reappearing). The idea of Zola becoming the Other and the Heterodyne I don't think ever appeared in our tin-foil hatting.

    But it should have.

    This now shows us why so much time was spent on Zola. She, unlike Lucrezia, has every reason to keep Tarvek alive. Not only does Tarvek now have a reason to still be alive, he also has a reason to feel guilty about what happened.

    This is another piece of misdirection. We originally thought that perhaps Tarvek switched sides again and sided with The Other when she reappeared. Yet that never seemed to happen, or even about to happen. But for it to be Zola, not Lucrezia to be the catalyst? Well, it makes much more sense to me. Especially if Agatha is dead. In that case, Tarvek probably figures to cut his losses and plot from the background.

    Now whether or not this story worked, is of course, debatable.

    But the jigsaw pieces do seem to fit.


    Of course, none of the above theorizing/puzzle-piecing actually says that Othar's presence will make the situation better.

    For all we know he might try to pop a cap in Lucrezia!Agatha if she starts acting all Otherly around him.
    Last edited by Porthos; 2010-07-11 at 02:31 AM.
    Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
    Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
    Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
    Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes


    __________________________

    No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    slayerx's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

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    Well Zola's making out to be quite the villain... she's got full access to Lucrezia's mind now. if Zola really isn't a spark, she almost like one... With access to Lucrezia's mind, she could theoretically reproduce anything that Lucrezia has ever created. Hell if Zola is faced with a problem and the Lucy in her head thinks about that same problem and comes up with a solution, Zola will have access to that solution; Lucy will have to keep thinking something else to avoid giving Zola help


    Now if only Zola could learn to cut down on the gloating... seems almost certain someone will save Agatha from her... honestly, this little plot of Zola's would have gone off perfectly if she either let Lucrezia keep control of her a little longer or atleast acted like Lucrezia was in control. Then LucreziAgatha would have killed herself and be none the wiser to what's really going on... And Zola can try to play innocent should anyone happen to come back sooner than expected.

    only real question is what Zola will do to get out of the inevitable rescue... If it's Othar she might just be able to get away with by claiming that Agatha is the other... Othar might force her to stand down, but it might give Zola the window she needs to escape smoke knight style

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

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    So now what would it be like if the robot Other we saw at the beginning of the comic, was not Lucrezia Other going rampant, but instead was Zola, having replaced the Other entirely?


    Edit: My apologies I thought I spoilered the thing.
    Last edited by Lillith; 2010-07-11 at 10:12 AM.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    datalaughing's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    I am almost certain this is when Othar shows up.

    Consider:
    Spoiler
    Show
    We know from the Dark Future described in Othar's Twitter that:

    A) The Other reappears.
    B) Gil is not in the picture.
    C) There is a marriage between the Houses Heterodyne and Wulfenbach.
    D) Tarvek survives.

    Now Zola having complete control over The Other makes this situation fit perfectly. She saves Tarvek for her own purposes/The Plan, she marries The Baron (who is Wasped and can't refuse), and then things go to hell.

    Maybe the Giesters revolt against her. Maybe Zola really is incompetent on some level. Maybe someone decides to try to use nukes to stop The Other.

    Who knows why, exactly.

    But the situation in this room describes everything we had been told. Zola kills Agatha and Gil (who are incapacitated on the floor) and takes Agatha's place as the True Heterodyne (which the town now expects to see, since the lightshow went off).

    This almost has to be the situation that Othar has been sent to stop.

    In fact, it's a nice piece of misdirection on the Foglio's part. When we read the Twitter Feed, I think most of us presumed that it would be Lucrezia!Agatha that would marry the Baron (because of all of the stuff about the "Heterodyne" reappearing). The idea of Zola becoming the Other and the Heterodyne I don't think ever appeared in our tin-foil hatting.

    But it should have.

    This now shows us why so much time was spent on Zola. She, unlike Lucrezia, has every reason to keep Tarvek alive. Not only does Tarvek now have a reason to still be alive, he also has a reason to feel guilty about what happened.

    This is another piece of misdirection. We originally thought that perhaps Tarvek switched sides again and sided with The Other when she reappeared. Yet that never seemed to happen, or even about to happen. But for it to be Zola, not Lucrezia to be the catalyst? Well, it makes much more sense to me. Especially if Agatha is dead. In that case, Tarvek probably figures to cut his losses and plot from the background.

    Now whether or not this story worked, is of course, debatable.

    But the jigsaw pieces do seem to fit.


    Of course, none of the above theorizing/puzzle-piecing actually says that Othar's presence will make the situation better.

    For all we know he might try to pop a cap in Lucrezia!Agatha if she starts acting all Otherly around him.
    Spoiler
    Show
    One big problem here. Zola has no way to force the baron to marry her. The wasps and revenants are controlled using Lucrezia's voice. Whatever memories Zola may have, she doesn't have the voice.
    "Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight ... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly only when I'm gettin' paid, but ... eating people alive? Where's that get fun?" - Jayne

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by datalaughing View Post
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    One big problem here. Zola has no way to force the baron to marry her. The wasps and revenants are controlled using Lucrezia's voice. Whatever memories Zola may have, she doesn't have the voice.
    Spoiler
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    But Zola's got access to Lucrezia's mind, which would include working knowledge of how the wasps work... In theory, should could discover a way for her to be able to control the wasps the way Lucrezia can

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

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    Assume that Othar has been lurking just off stage left, and heard that entire conversation.

    What's the most hilarious way in which he could misinterpret it?
    The Evil Midnight Lurker what Lurks at Midnight
    "An object at rest -- CANNOT BE STOPPED!!!!!"

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by datalaughing View Post
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    One big problem here. Zola has no way to force the baron to marry her. The wasps and revenants are controlled using Lucrezia's voice. Whatever memories Zola may have, she doesn't have the voice.
    Spoiler
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    We already know though that the voice can be synthesized. So she takes some time out and has Tarvek build a voice box. Alternatively, if we want to stetch things a bit, the fact that Zola is an actress might mean that she has Vocal Training and can mimick her voice to sound like Lucrezia's/Agatha's.

    Bit of a stretch, but not impossible.
    Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
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    __________________________

    No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    chiasaur11's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
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    We already know though that the voice can be synthesized. So she takes some time out and has Tarvek build a voice box. Alternatively, if we want to stetch things a bit, the fact that Zola is an actress might mean that she has Vocal Training and can mimick her voice to sound like Lucrezia's/Agatha's.

    Bit of a stretch, but not impossible.
    Spoiler
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    If it was that easy, then a lot of the mess in Stormwald could have been avoided, I would assume.

    Remember how I was wishing for the peace of oblivion a minute ago?

    Yeah. That hasn't exactly changed with more knowledge of the situation. -Security Chief Victor Jones, formerly of the UESC Marathon.

    X-Com avatar by BRC. He's good folks.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
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    We already know though that the voice can be synthesized. So she takes some time out and has Tarvek build a voice box. Alternatively, if we want to stetch things a bit, the fact that Zola is an actress might mean that she has Vocal Training and can mimick her voice to sound like Lucrezia's/Agatha's.

    Bit of a stretch, but not impossible.
    Spoiler
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    They were able to synthesize Agatha's voice through extensive analyzing of the voice being used for different things (orders, questions, etc) and then uploading the results to an advanced clank that already had a voice. Since the new plan calls for Agatha to be dead in the very near future, we can bet that that won't be happening again. If they could replicate Lucrezia's voice out of thin air, they would have done so long ago, and no matter how good an actress Zola is, it's highly unlikely that she'll be able to get her voice to sound enough like Lucrezia's to do the trick, especially since she's about to kill Agatha and won't have anything to reference when she gets around to trying to impersonate her. And even supposing they could get to robocrezia, disable her, and steal her voice box (which is extremely unlikely), all of the orders Zola wanted to give would be coming out of a little box, not out of her. Any of the minions with half a brain would refuse to follow Zola if she was giving orders from a box she carried around with her.
    "Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight ... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly only when I'm gettin' paid, but ... eating people alive? Where's that get fun?" - Jayne

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

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    "Citadel of Silver Light," eh?

    I'm guessing that's the Geister homeland/castle/fortress/whatever, and The Other's base. Which would be where her core self is, whether that's Lucrezia or not.

    And Zola knows where it is now.
    The Evil Midnight Lurker what Lurks at Midnight
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  19. - Top - End - #19

    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by datalaughing View Post
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    Any of the minions with half a brain would refuse to follow Zola if she was giving orders from a box she carried around with her.
    Spoiler
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    True, but that's the good thing about minions, most of them don't even have that half a brain


    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Lurker View Post
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    "Citadel of Silver Light," eh?

    I'm guessing that's the Geister homeland/castle/fortress/whatever, and The Other's base. Which would be where her core self is, whether that's Lucrezia or not.

    And Zola knows where it is now.

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    I got the impression that it doesn't exist
    Last edited by Tiger Duck; 2010-07-11 at 04:50 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by datalaughing View Post
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    And even supposing they could get to robocrezia, disable her, and steal her voice box (which is extremely unlikely), all of the orders Zola wanted to give would be coming out of a little box, not out of her. Any of the minions with half a brain would refuse to follow Zola if she was giving orders from a box she carried around with her.
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    Except the minions were are talking about are revenants; no free will... they do no have the free will to refuse the orders, and they WILL follow the orders no matter what the source... As we've seen, they are unable to distinguish between the clank imitation, angry agatha and a true geniune Lucrezia... the ONLY ones that Zola with a voice box might have trouble with are the Geister; but i think Zola would find them expendable if she got Wulfenbach under her control

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Happy View Post
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    I got the impression that it doesn't exist
    That's not what I get out of Zola's dialogue. Also, remember the Geisters' underground migration? The pack beast caravan? They have some kind of base, whether it's a Lost City or some isolated fortress Lucrezia built. And it seems clear at this point that there is a "core" Other, whether or not Lucrezia is the original, that the copies report to.
    Last edited by Midnight Lurker; 2010-07-11 at 05:20 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #22

    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Yeah you are probably right.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Lurker View Post
    And it seems clear at this point that there is a "core" Other, whether or not Lucrezia is the original, that the copies report to.
    Which of course really just brings us back too the old question of whether or not Lucrezia became the Other, or the Other "became" Lucrezia. The argument that it must be Lucrezia who's in charge "because she remembers Klaus" loses a lot of credibility when we realize that the Geister's mind tech (which I suspect is like the Skifanderen's more a matter of learned mental discipline then sparky mechanics) can completely trap even a strong mind and still read it like a book. Yes, the Other-Lucrezia knows everything Lucrezia-Prime did from before the attack on the Castle, but apparently now so can Zola after only a few minutes. How much more I wonder will she be able to integrate those memories into her own conciousness in a couple years?

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChowGuy View Post
    Which of course really just brings us back too the old question of whether or not Lucrezia became the Other, or the Other "became" Lucrezia. The argument that it must be Lucrezia who's in charge "because she remembers Klaus" loses a lot of credibility when we realize that the Geister's mind tech (which I suspect is like the Skifanderen's more a matter of learned mental discipline then sparky mechanics) can completely trap even a strong mind and still read it like a book. Yes, the Other-Lucrezia knows everything Lucrezia-Prime did from before the attack on the Castle, but apparently now so can Zola after only a few minutes. How much more I wonder will she be able to integrate those memories into her own conciousness in a couple years?
    It's not just about what she remembers. The personality being downloaded into each of these brains acts just like Lucrezia. Klaus recognizes her because he's heard her gloat so many times before, and he never met her after she drugs him and sends him away. She is like the original Lucrezia in every way (except, as Klaus said, with tech more advanced that he expected from her). We've seen no hint of a different force or personality at work. Even her family wasn't at all surprised by what happened and has been preparing for her return for years. If anything, the more we've seen of her, the less likely it seems that some other force overtook Lucrezia to create the Other. Because we've seen no indication of it. The only support for the hypothesis is that people don't want to believe Lucrezia was really that evil all on her own, and wishful thinking is not really a good basis for a theory.
    Last edited by datalaughing; 2010-07-12 at 05:12 AM.
    "Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight ... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly only when I'm gettin' paid, but ... eating people alive? Where's that get fun?" - Jayne

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by datalaughing View Post
    It's not just about what she remembers. The personality being downloaded into each of these brains acts just like Lucrezia. Klaus recognizes her because he's heard her gloat so many times before, and he never met her after she drugs him and sends him away. She is like the original Lucrezia in every way (except, as Klaus said, with tech more advanced that he expected from her). We've seen no hint of a different force or personality at work. Even her family wasn't at all surprised by what happened and has been preparing for her return for years. If anything, the more we've seen of her, the less likely it seems that some other force overtook Lucrezia to create the Other. Because we've seen no indication of it. The only support for the hypothesis is that people don't want to believe Lucrezia was really that evil all on her own, and wishful thinking is not really a good basis for a theory.
    Basically, this. It's an old theory that a lot of people have liked for a long long time (basically all the way back to when mind-transfers were introduced), but AFAIK there has never ever ever been any evidence to suggest it, and there's been a lot of problems that it can't explain. My feeling is that it's popular because people don't want to think that Agatha's mother could really be so horrible.

    Lucrezia constantly refers to herself in terms that indicate that she considers herself to be Agatha's mother, Lucrezia, and so forth. She does this consistently even in situations where she's firmly in control and there's nobody around worth lying to (when alone with Tarvek, for instance, even though he hasn't the slightest reason to care and she has no reason to think there's anyone alive who would care. Just now, in the most recent strip, she desperately calls out to 'Lucrezia, darling' to try and get her mind to come out of Zola, way way past the point where lying to Zola serves any purpose. Whereas Zola, with full access to her memory and after implying that she knows Lucrezia's dirty secret anyway, continues to call her auntie.)

    I'm not saying it's totally impossible, but it doesn't seem any more likely to me than the Dragon from Mars.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Basically, this. It's an old theory that a lot of people have liked for a long long time (basically all the way back to when mind-transfers were introduced), but AFAIK there has never ever ever been any evidence to suggest it, and there's been a lot of problems that it can't explain. My feeling is that it's popular because people don't want to think that Agatha's mother could really be so horrible.
    The reason many people are not so keen on Lucrezia being the Other is that she clearly crossed the Moral Advent Horizon some time ago. (And Zola just did it today I think). From what we have seen of Lucrezia before the Other arrived is that while she was evil, she also had another side that put a limit on how bad she would act. And she clearly was trying to reform when Klaus saw her last. This is all evidence that something happened that "broke" her in some way. Some element was added or maybe removed from her that caused her to go over the edge (WAY over the edge).

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    oh huzza, another clifhanger

    I guess that Othar (Gentleman Adventurer) & Sister Sidekick get to save the day
    * my emphasis

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Ha, I knew it was some kind of trap, though it wasn't the Order but Lucrezia's own family who planned it. Maybe megalomania (and a tendency to gloat true Evil Villain style) just runs in the Mongfish blood and Lucrezia never had any intention of reforming. Pity, it makes her less interesting.

    Othar might very well come in on Zola's side, or at least not on Agatha's side, since Agatha is a known spark and Zola is unknown to him. Even if Wilhelm game him a rundown of current events he would only know that Zola and Agatha both claim to be Heterodynes and Zola really wants Agatha dead and is willing to kill anyone in her way. Will Othar pause to try and sort out the mess? Or will he simply try to extract Gil and get the heck out of Dodge.

    I'll bet the reason the Foglio's teamed him up with Wilhelm is to give him a reason to get involved against his better judgment, and possibly side with Agatha even though she's a spark. Wilhelm is going to try to stop Zola since she's seen Zola's ugly side and likes Agatha. Zola won't have any trouble dealing with Wilhelm... but this will force Othar's hand, possibly even while he's trying to steal away with the already conveniently unconscious Gil over his shoulder.

    EDIT: And perhaps this will give Moloch a chance to come to Wilhelm's aid.
    Last edited by Zazu Yen; 2010-07-12 at 12:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    This is all evidence that something happened that "broke" her in some way. Some element was added or maybe removed from her that caused her to go over the edge (WAY over the edge).
    Even if that's true (I'm not familiar enough with the backhistory to say for sure), it doesn't mean that this thing that pushed her over the edge has to be some other entity. Lucrezia is a Spark, and we've seen throughout that most Sparks are on the ragged edge of sanity at the best of times--for all we know, Lucrezia just went over the edge by herself without any outside influence!
    Last edited by factotum; 2010-07-12 at 12:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All!

    The thing is that Othar likes Agatha. She's on his "kill last" list, which I'd wager is pretty short.

    My guess is he'll break in see the tale of two Heterodynes, and come to this conclusion: "The Baron and his men told me that Agatha is the Other, but that doesn't seem right because she's a good girl. Ooh, what's this? A second girl claiming to be the Heterodyne that's quite obviously evil? Aha! Case of mistaken identity, I knew it! Wait! The evil girl is drawing a gun on Agatha? Othar Trygvassen, Gentleman Adventurer to the rescue!"

    Then his timely rescue accidentally knocks Agatha out. Gil wakes up, puts the amulet back on Agatha, and Othar walks out absolutely convinced that he saved a nice spark, the Baron's son, took out the Other, and cleared Agatha's name all in one timely rescue. Yes friends, he is just that good.
    Last edited by Calemyr; 2010-07-12 at 01:28 PM.

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