Too cheesy?

[zenanarchist]

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetvie...sheetid=222650

Check it out, let me know if you, as a DM would allow the cheese of incarnate construct warforged plus the headband of intellect at ECL 6.

Probably check out the In-Betweener in my sig and add it's features mentally to the sheet to get an idea of where that's going.

Essentially (even though this isn't what I was going for) he's a Mech Walker. Mobile weapons platform with a goodie bag of shadow light tricks to make him a little heftier.

If you WOULD accept this, does anyone have any suggestions for an awesome weapon/shield of just weapon combination that I can add to this guy to make him all the more deadly taking into consideration he has multi attack/shadow and light powers/beams/zen combat.

[PId6]

Personally, I'm a fairly lenient DM. I'd allow a lot of nice LA +0 races, ranging from Dragonborn Lesser Tieflings to Dragonwrought Kobolds. Still, Incarnate Construct Warforged is just so much cheese that even I wouldn't touch it with a 10 ft pole. Make of that how you will.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Honestly, it would depend on the template for me. Something like Winged from Savage Species would be fine, but Lolth-touched Feral would be a large "no."

[dextercorvia]

I like cheese, a lot. But I don't see any rational for negative LA.

[arguskos]

I'm pretty reasonable as well, but yeah no. Negative LA opens up too many thorny issues. I'd shoot that thing down in a heartbeat and feel fine about it.

[Kylarra]

Spellwarped is an inherited template, incarnate construct is granted by a spell...

*brainexplode*

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Spellwarped is an inherited template, incarnate construct is granted by a spell...

*brainexplode*

I'm assuming that these Warforged would act much like humans with their new-found libido.

So, yeah, it technically doesn't hold up for the first generation. I vaguely recall there being an argument for such to apply at character creation with Dragonwrought Dragonspawn Kobolds through some sort of voodoo logic, but it didn't hold much water for me. So, yeah. Again.

This may help you.

[Vizzerdrix]

Primordial Giant that thing.

[Kylarra]

You still can't use an acquired template to qualify for an inherited template, at least not while hoping for some semblance of RAW as your backing.

I'm not even going to talk about dragonspawn abominations...

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Like I said, I don't buy it, which is why I suggest breeding: it's the dragon solution, after all!

[zenanarchist]

You still can't use an acquired template to qualify for an inherited template, at least not while hoping for some semblance of RAW as your backing.

I'm not even going to talk about dragonspawn abominations...

You guys totally just KILLED my awesome mobile weapons platform in one fell swoop. lol.

Due to this I must now ask for your honourable help in producing a no cheese build that still grants me massive Int with only +1LA at a maximum. Massive Int being anywhere from +4 to +6, I don't need any other bonuses, just the Intelligence.

[zenanarchist]

Like I said, I don't buy it, which is why I suggest breeding: it's the dragon solution, after all!

Breeding?

Also, does someone have the details for Dragonwrought kobold? Linkage?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Breeding?

Presumably, if you got enough Incarnate Construct'd 'Forged together, they could do the nasty.

Also, does someone have the details for Dragonwrought kobold? Linkage?

To the argument, no, but Dragonwrought is in Races of the Dragon.

[zenanarchist]

Presumably, if you got enough Incarnate Construct'd 'Forged together, they could do the nasty.



To the argument, no, but Dragonwrought is in Races of the Dragon.

....Bahahaha! @ the nasty. Indeed

[PId6]

Due to this I must now ask for your honourable help in producing a no cheese build that still grants me massive Int with only +1LA at a maximum. Massive Int being anywhere from +4 to +6, I don't need any other bonuses, just the Intelligence.

If you wanted Cha, that'd be easy. Int? A bit harder. Venerable Necropolitan Fire Elf (or Lesser Tiefling) has -6 Str, -4 Dex, - Con, +5 Int, +3 Wis, +1 Cha for LA +0, though it'll cost you a bit of XP. Old Necropolitan Fire Elf has -3 Str, -1 Dex, - Con, +4 Int, +2 Wis. There may be some LA +1 template that adds Int, but I can't think of one off the top.

A Primoridal Half-Giant has -2 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Int, +4 Cha for LA +1. Slap on some aging on there if you like, possibly accompanied by Necropolitan. A Venerable Necropolitan Primordial Half-Giant has -8 Str, -8 Dex, - Con, +7 Int, +3 Wis, +7 Cha. An Old one is slightly less extreme, at -5 Str, -5 Dex, - Con, +6 Int, +2 Wis, +6 Cha.

[Lhurgyof]

You could use the Vanara (or whatever) from Oriental Adventures as a base race. Slap on some cheese and hey! There ya go.

[zenanarchist]

Presumably, if you got enough Incarnate Construct'd 'Forged together, they could do the nasty.



To the argument, no, but Dragonwrought is in Races of the Dragon.

You could use the Vanara (or whatever) from Oriental Adventures as a base race. Slap on some cheese and hey! There ya go.

No, bad person. No cheese. lol. I need something DM's will easily accept. I'm already pushing it with the headband of Intellect.

Also, age categories are....harmful. Despite the fact he'll be staying out of range of melee and uses Int to BAB....

He could still get hurt.

[PId6]

Also, age categories are....harmful. Despite the fact he'll be staying out of range of melee and uses Int to BAB....

He could still get hurt.

Hence why the Necropolitan. You lose Con entirely as an undead, so you can dump it as much as you like. The old fire elf version only loses -1 Dex, and Str doesn't matter at all. Really, your options are quite limited with only +1 LA. If there's some kind of +2 Int template for LA +1, then things get easier (just slap it on Dragonwrought Kobold or Gray Elf). If not, then you'll probably need to resort to something with penalties like aging.

[Claudius Maximus]

If you wanted Cha, that'd be easy. Int? A bit harder. Venerable Necropolitan Fire Elf (or Lesser Tiefling) has -6 Str, -4 Dex, - Con, +5 Int, +3 Wis, +1 Cha for LA +0, though it'll cost you a bit of XP. Old Necropolitan Fire Elf has -3 Str, -1 Dex, - Con, +4 Int, +2 Wis. There may be some LA +1 template that adds Int, but I can't think of one off the top.

A Primoridal Half-Giant has -2 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Int, +4 Cha for LA +1. Slap on some aging on there if you like, possibly accompanied by Necropolitan. A Venerable Necropolitan Primordial Half-Giant has -8 Str, -8 Dex, - Con, +7 Int, +3 Wis, +7 Cha. An Old one is slightly less extreme, at -5 Str, -5 Dex, - Con, +6 Int, +2 Wis, +6 Cha.

I don't see why the age penalties are necessary on a Necropolitan.

[zenanarchist]

Dragonwrought Kobold keeps coming up. Hm.

If anyone finds a link for why it's so damn awesome pop it through!

Also, necropolitan sounds awesome for the 0 con.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I don't see why the age penalties are necessary on a Necropolitan.

Some argue that you can no longer age once undead, so that's probably why.

[PId6]

I don't see why the age penalties are necessary on a Necropolitan.

The idea is that you grow old before you become Necropolitan. I honestly don't remember how aging interacts with undeath if you do it afterward. If you can still gain bonuses normally after undeath without the penalties, then great, even better.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Dragonwrought Kobold keeps coming up. Hm.

If anyone finds a link for why it's so damn awesome pop it through!

Also, necropolitan sounds awesome for the 0 con.

Venerable Spellhoarding Dragonwrought Kobold Loredrake, Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, go Wizard 1/ Stalwart Sorcerer 2/ Malconvoker. Dragonwrought makes you a true dragon, thus qualifying you for dragon-only templates and other options, plus you don't take penalties to your physical ability scores from aging. Loredrake adds +2 levels to your Sorcerer spellcasting ability. Stalwart Sorcerer hinders your Sorcerer spells known and spells/day in exchange for more proficiencies, Weapon Focus, and +2 HP per class level. The Greater Draconic Rite of Passage gives you +1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting ability.

Spellhoarding gives you Int +2, Wis -4, Scribe Scroll, and Eschew Materials, and trades your Sorcerer spellcasting ability for equal levels of Wizard spellcasting ability. You write your spells on your scales instead of in a book, you can write the same spell multiple times, you can sacrifice those scribed spells to fuel other abilities such as alternatives to paying costly material component and xp costs of spells, casting a spell as though from a scroll, etc., and you can never lose your spell book.

With Wizard 1 you can specialize in Conjuration and get Abrupt Jaunt, Enhanced Summoning, Focused Specialist, etc. and your acquired Spellhoarding template will add your Sorcerer spellcasting levels to your existing Wizard spellcasting. At Wizard 1/ Sorcerer 2 you'll have 5th level Wizard spellcasting, Sorcerer gives you Bluff as a class skill and Wizard gives you Kn: Planes so you'll easily meet the skill requirements by then and can go straight into Malconvoker. At your 6th character level you can get the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage for yet another extra level of spellcasting, which would be converted to Wizard. Even after losing a level of spellcasting at Malconvoker 1 your spellcasting ability will be ahead by two levels. You should even consider taking Arcane Disciple to get Thaumaturgist.

Not all of that is relevant to this discussion, but I'm too lazy to crop it.

[zenanarchist]

Not all of that is relevant to this discussion, but I'm too lazy to crop it.

Now if I were a spellcaster, that'd rawk.

[PId6]

The short version is that kobolds can take the Dragonwrought feat from Races of the Dragon. This basically allows them to ignore aging penalties, letting you make Venerable kobolds with +3 to all mental stats without penalizing your physical stats. The extra Loredrake/Spellhoarding/etc stuff isn't actually necessary.

[zenanarchist]

The short version is that kobolds can take the Dragonwrought feat from Races of the Dragon. This basically allows them to ignore aging penalties, letting you make Venerable kobolds with +3 to all mental stats without penalizing your physical stats. The extra Loredrake/Spellhoarding/etc stuff isn't actually necessary.

....Ahhhhhh.

But yep, reeks of cheese. lol.

[Tytalus]

Check it out, let me know if you, as a DM would allow the cheese of incarnate construct warforged plus the headband of intellect at ECL 6.

Frankly, I don't see the point. You won't be pulling any LA shenanigans with this setup.

Either you apply Spellwarped before Incarnate Construct or after.

(1) Applying Spellwarped before Incarnate Construct

Resulting LA: +1. You loose all special abilities granted by Spellwarped (and some from being a warforged), so it's a terrible idea. All you get is a few attribute bonuses. Not to mention, it's illegal by the rules (can't apply Spellwarped to a construct, and Incarnate Construct can't be applied to an aberration).

(2) Applying Incarnate Construct before Spellwarped

Resulting LA: +3. Remember, the LA of Incarnate Construct is not "-2", its "-2 (minimum 0)". Your benefit of using Incarnate Construct is NIL in this case. In fact, you loose some of your warforged abilities along the way, so it's a terrible idea.

[Critical]

Would you like some wine with your cheese, sir?

Hint: That meant no.

[2xMachina]

....Ahhhhhh.

But yep, reeks of cheese. lol.

Dragonwrought is as RAW as it gets.

The Loredrake/Wyrm of War things? Yeah, Uttercheese.